all this talk about others attacking your delicate and elegant persona, and look what you are doing. Exactly that, quite a few times in this thread
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Come on any time people call for a buff to their class people get behind it!
You keep saying and implying Arms is broken in PVP; but theyâre under represented in RBGs at higher levels and whilst theyâre stronger in Arena theyâre above average representation but way below the levels they would be if they really were as broken as you describe and with the flawed maths youâve spouted.
You clearly have some kind of superiority complex with your views that you are among an elite few capable of describing the changes which should be made whilst us plebeians are just dazzled and befuddled by your towering intellect. Perhaps we shouldnât even try to understand the ideas of one so clearly vastly beyond our limited abilities to comprehend.
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You asked a rhetorical question
You seem to dance around the fact that the extent of your play on arms warrior was in beta on a target dummy and have little experience of playing it in situations where these modifiers arenât practical to build up.
I also never answered by asking another question. Please show me where you think I did.
For the record, I believe arms is overpowered in arena but not for the reasons you claim it is.
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ived played every class in this game for extensive periods both pvp and pve with 2.5k pvp achieves to pve realm first. So i kinda have an ideea about classes, but hey maybe i dont?
However, in my opinion Warrior used to be a PHD class up until cataclysm. Stance dancing is the larger part of why it was a shstorm to play them.
Now its as easy as anything else really. Nothing is complicated to play in Shadowlands and deffo not warrior.
As for his current PVP skills. Eeeh, honestly it reminds me of cata a bit, they are a bit OP when mixed with some good combos, 1v1 tho, not so much.
But same could be said of a few other classes, will always be unbalanced.
But PVE tho, they stank, arms does.
Strawman, as usual, meant to make me ridiculous and you look good by context.
Except attacking others would inferring something that they never said based on what they said either implicitly or explicitly.
This was said as an interpretation based on what they said. Just because you disagree in no way makes it a personal attack. Saying that it is, is a personal attack though.
Your argument was
I showed that others did as well. That makes it a hyperbolic statement and you better have your arguments in order to defend that. Using it as the essence of your argument only shows the hollowness of it.
There are no discriminators in what you say. What is âhigher rating,â what bracket or form of PvP are you looking at, etc. This is an anecdotal statement thatâs useless as itâs too broad.
I looked into the stats here and here. Objective representation looks good. Other than in 2v2 Warrior overall representation is trending upwards. In EU 3v3 out of 22 teams, representing eight classes in the top 66 of people, there are eight Warriors, which is a pretty average representation. There are 11 Disc Priests. If you want to talk about underrepresentation then there are only one DK and one Warlock.
As for your claim that Iâve implied that Warriors are broken, which you provides to evidence for and if I had said something that could imply that then youâd have quoted it as irrefutable proof, broken goes two ways. Thereâs broken as in, âthereâs no chance of getting this to work out ever.â And there broken as in, âthis is impossible to deal with.â
Since Iâd never use that vague an expression without explaining what I mean I know that i neve implied it, and if you interpreted it in my words itâs your bias talking.
Youâre correct. I did do that by accidentally closing with an â.â instead of a â?â Thatâs my own error.
That would be mostly in PvE. In PvP, they are, especially in RBG where other classes are there to apply constant pressure. Since the buffs are also applied to the player instead of the target you can easily switch. The only situation where theyâre impractical to apply would be when the the duration conflicts with having to kill now, and in this case, the MW effect takes precedence.
Youâre also applying ad hominem with this. Instead of using actual arguments, youâd rather make it so that I appear s stupid instead of my arguments.
You are wrong. CC, being kited and having to play defensively are all reasons why building the modifiers up are impractical when you should be MSâing on cd (unless maybe venthyr with exploiter). As an arms warrior, you are the constant pressure.
Saying you lack experience in certain situations does not mean I was trying to make you appear stupid. I was simply pointing out that you lack the knowledge to know how arms warrior plays out in actual pvp settings. Would this be an example of you stripping down what I said to fit your narrative? I think there is a word for that. We can all lack knowledge in something but still have the ability to learn it.
Where did I answer your question with another question? I would still like to âgo thereâ with the Aimed shot example that you referred to earlier. Please elaborate.
But you ARE ridiculous mr strawman
In regards the below, I thought saying differentiating between Arena and RBGs was clear? And youâre capable (as youâve shown) of finding your own links, which I think support my point.
First of all this thread is about PVP and calling for nerfs to arms warriors, maybe what I wrote wasnât nuanced enough for you, apologies. Unlike you Iâll take responsibility for that as the communicator. My point is youâre the main one calling for major nerfs to the viability of Arms warriors with your ideas. You donât see many (there are obviously some there always will be) others calling for that because although theyâre strong they arenât broken. Most would rather see buffs to their own class - Iâd probably support a DH buff as they seem weak to me when Iâm against them, but I donât play one.
As for being happy to get behind a call to buff a spec in any form then of course people jump on that bandwagon. Iâm sure if people said Balance Druids need a PVE damage buff there would be plenty jumping on it. Arms might need a PVE buff in 9.1 because in the current content as iLVL goes up they fall further down the rankings (where historically theyâve been power scalers with gear). With the new gear if that continues and means they fall further back (rather than the being some breakpoint where suddenly they get better) then a tuning buff might be needed, but tuning not a whole rework. But Iâd personally wait and see what it looks like on the PTR.
If you think that then nothing I say would ever change your initial opinion- Which makes your entire reasoning pure bias.
If you think my OPINIONS are ridiculous then itâs another matter entirely and you go into this debate with a lot more intellectual honesty.
By saying what you did youâve accidentally given away your subconscious thinking behind this and I can safely ignore anything you say wince youâll do the same to whatever I say. Trying to say anything to you is just a waste of time unless I already agree with what you believe.
Yeah, thatâs the exact reason people in RBG are going âjust kill the target normally,â instead of âburst it down sop the healers are unable to save them.â
I appreciate you posting on the warrior character that actually has the experience.
From the numbers, youâve applied way more effort into 2v2 than 3v3 or RBG. The dynamics in 2v2 than 3v3 and RBG as there are others there to fill the gap of your weaknesses. In 2v2 thereâs just you so you have to keep up constant pressure. If you do the same in 3v3 and RBG then your performance will be lower as those areas are about playing the best instead of playing consistently.
Iâm calling for them to be resigned. This in no way includes calling for them to be nerfed, just to work differently. That SP was redesigned and no one has called that a nerf afaik. That you think it has to be a nerf is your own bias projected on to me.
Once again I put a â.â instead of a â?â making it seem like a rhetorical question, so your lack of answer is on me.
And from your warrior I see youâve experienced almost nothing this season in ranked pvp. So should I discredit everything youâve said? Maybe.
Of course you swap with your team to burst down a target but you are not consciously building up your modifiers for that exact moment to arise. It would be a performance loss for you to try and do so. Things happen quickly in pvp. The rest of the time you are that constant pressure trying to poke holes in the other team, disrupt them and be a general pain offensively and defensively.
I now see where your arguments come from. What you express here is the extremely bad faith strawman is that the modifiers are to be held until youâre good to use them. This is a bias you have in the argument and youâøre unaware that you have it so what you say is dissonant from what you express.
If you had no bias then what you said would be congruent with what you expressed.
And I now see that you have no no proof or experience to back up what youâve been claiming in that arms needs redesigning in pvp. I know this because you try to discredit others by claiming strawman and thus implying that they are dishonest and are liars. When you have no proof or evidence to back up your argument, you just claim strawman.
You donât address what others have said to you, only how they have said it.
True, I should back it up with a source, hereâs the zone of proximal development (zpd)
Both of those labels implies intent, it implies that people are the villain, no one is the villain of their own narrative. No one is good or bad, theyâre just people who do good things that are really bad and bad things that are really good.
Using fallacies to back up your argument is an example of the former. People subjectively see what they say as a good thing despite it being bad in the context of the argument.
How people say things are extremely important for how they see things and what they believe. We can only describe the world in our own subjective view when we do it without reflection. A person one person sees describes as bad in their worldview can easily be described as a good person in anotherâs.
I truly fail to see, other than ego, how people see it as bad to get a higher low-end change in exchange for a high-end performance that requires a lot of effort to make.
Itâs like people are aware subconsciously of how bad this system is except for PvP where it gives them a superior performance.
So, are you saying that you are the teacher and those you are trying to argue your point against are the children? Or, that arms in pvp requires a teacher in order to play initially? Iâm confused as to how this backs up what you are saying. Please explain
Okay, letâs cut the cr4p. Any1 claiming that Arms is OP with healer is a moron. Full stop.
You
Also you
This is cognitive dissonance. At this point thereâs nothing I can say or do that would change your mind. If I have no sources you ask for those. If I provide sources you imply that I act condesendenly by being a teacher.
No, I am simply asking a question. Itâs either you think you are the teacher etc (I did not accuse you of thinking this by the way) OR⌠arms pvp requires a teacher to learn initially OR something else.
Iâm asking you to explain how the source backs up what youâre claiming. You havenât done this in your next reply so it is one of the above or something else?
Starting to believe that you are in fact just a forum troll.
Arms is overpowered with certain healers. Especially with a resto druid in 2âs.
Jeez, how canât you see itâs irrational? You can only be overpowered solo. Something like Balance atm.
No, you were JAQâing off and hoping to get me into a rhetorical trap as your question was loaded in a way that if I answered ânoâ you could turn it into, âhow can you then claim to know anything?â If I answered âyesâ then the reaction would be obvious. So the societal pressure was that I could only answer âno.â And when thereâs only one answer really possible then the answer to the reply is obvious.
Even if you were never consciously aware of itâs in your expression so it exists at least subconsciously.