Solo Suffle killed the game

This was the case in Legion (kinda) and ppl hated it.
Why?
Because PvP is all about “dominating” and “destroying” your opponent.
What is fun about a BG where everyone is samely geared? You can’t one shot noobs anymore.
The BG-Pvp scene had a quite large decline at that point.

Currently SS revived arena, since there’s a nice peak in players participating in this content type.

Most off these posts basicly are:
“I can’t kill noobs anymore” kind off posts.

Haven’t you seen all those pve dudes and green-geared smurfs getting melted in 5 seconds? :rofl:
Yeah rewards are significant, but I (and many others I believe) couldnt bother looking on LFG for hours

Times changed.

I myself quitted Legion because of the hard-set template making the playstyle completely different than what I have on open world, on top of the necessity of doing PVE stuffs
The later reason holds true for BFA and SL

It really wasn’t. It’s more like WoD than Legion.

I think it is a question of opinion then. I can only speak from my own experience, with the perspective of what I personally enjoy, and this is the first expansion in 10 years that I don’t quit after the first month from seeing how gear becomes an unfun barrier of entry to PvP. Why should I pay 15 EURO a month to be a ragdoll in BGs, until I 8 weeks later perhaps am relevant enough to enjoy it? In this expansion, I finally enjoy being able to play a couple of hours after work and still be relevant. And feeling like I have a chance in winning that isnt dependent on whether or not I grinded 7 weeks of dailys to get enough stats.

I enjoyed Vanilla wow PvP in 2005 and 2006 because gear was so tough to get back then, mostly due to the inexperience of wow, and the 40man raids, that being a god in battlegrounds felt like a nice reward for all the grind and challenges that you had overcome. But the latest expansions before Dragonflight, we have pvp meta solved very quickly each patch, and gear is not behind a skill barrier, but a weekly grind barrier, that is not a measurement of overcoming challenges, but more so of putting in the hours of grinding, it felt unbearable for me personally. It felt silly that even when you are 80% grinded to the BiS in previous expansions, you would still just die from a maxed out borrowed power trigger. Oh god, I remember BFA arena in the latest patch, it was horrible to try and participate. All the PvE grind you had to do to not be slized in two globals by borrowed powers.

This expansion is great, for me, and for how I enjoy games. This is the first wow expansion were I play Arena and BGs everyday instead of playing a MOBA or FPS, two game formats which also give you an equal opportunity of winning, measured in skill, not in grind. Of course this expansion of wow has the same problem as MOBAs; that FOTM classes seem to dominate, but I think Blizzard is doing a great job in attempting to scale the balance of classes, by constant aggressive patch changes.

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Sorry, but no one wants to sit in custom finder where people ask for glad achives for an invite. And it is obvious people who asking it had bought a boost for real money, because once you try playing with them they play worse than you.

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Think about it from the devs’ point of view on pvp rewards:

  • The guy with glad in SS has to win WITH 50x more ppl than the guy in traditional arena. In SS you have to win your low rated matches WITH low rated players.
  • The guy in traditional arenas simply farms the low rated players with his glad friends.

Which of these 2 guys looks like more of a hero to someone whose job is; trying to maintaining a large gaming community? :smiley:

Think about it from the devs’ point of view on balance:

  • The guy in SS has to work with w/e he’s got each match, And that changes every shuffle, and rotates within every shuffle. He succeeds within a self balancing system.
  • The guy in traditional arena metas the viable comps, and metas their win conditions.

The devs’ primary concern is balancing specs in pve (where the money really comes from).
Imagine trying to balance all these specs every tier for pve, and pvp, and keeping their gameplays unique, WHILE balancing out their group interplay in competitive play to avoid any exploit scenarios in traditional arenas.
Meanwhile in shuffle, that exploit concern is mitigated to a near non-concern.

Which of these looks more reasonable to someone whose job is; trying to maintaining a large gaming community? :smiley:

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I have no clue whats your exp etc however there are tons of idk lets say 2,5k exp sl s2 glads who are clueless however have insane ego and act like they know what theyre talking about and blame teammates for everything while theyre waaaaay worse. So how do you even recognise someone is worse than you? For example i qued soloq and well there was freecasting lock in the middle so i did what worked last 10 years for me and just lined the lock while my healer stood in the middle and tanked everything. After the lose he blamed me for my positioning. Till this day i wonder - who was wrong? The answer is not obvious since staying in the middle can be actually better than at pillar in certain scenarios. So basically while someone might look boosted to you you can also look like boosted to him cos he knows something you dont and people are selfish creatures who dont care about others thought process and rather blame others instead of thinking of their mistakes. Sadly thats something i see every day.

I think the essence of this problem is one humans have had for millennia. It is why philosophy to this day has such an emphasis on the truth value of judgements, because we want to know; “is it me or my opponent who is right in their judgement?”. The truth is that to this day, the best framework for asking about truth is natural sciences, yet you would need to make a very lengthy and deep analysis of the mechanics of arena, the numbers etc, to get close to this scientific truth value beneath it all.

And… probably no one will understand your scientific answer anyways. But in my experience, as a person with a cand.scient degree, the majority of society likes to believe their own point of view is the one most true, and thus it is easier to blame others than to realize you yourself were wrong.

Best thing you can do is striving for yourself to become better, while you ignore the judgements of others.

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It legitly takes about 5-6 hrs off BG grinding to start bieing relevant in Arena.
Also, Ppl complained when the “Gear Set” stuff was active that there was no Character progression through PvP. With your suggestion, this becomes a problem once again.

Also, your wall of text is tiresome, nobody cares about philosophy, we are playing videogames… :sweat:

In this expansion yes, which I like, and is what I argued was the reason I liked it.

It was definitely NOT the case in BFA, Legion or SL.

Sounds like a you problem. I know many people whom care about it. Depends what people you choose to spend your time with.

Not many. It was like, two to four people per year that even mentioned something like that on the arena forum, before Legion. And none of them were people with experience in PvP, it was just PvEers who wanted it to become like PvE where you could have gear progression not from PvP encounters, but from PvE bosses in PvP like trashran for example.

After Legion was released however, the complaints shifted, since people couldn’t gear up with stats they wanted for PvP with the template, and in BFA people complained because the progression required quite a lot of PvE.
Then SL came, and people complained about ilvl differences (and rightly so, it was just a tedious artificial obstacle to what should be about the gameplay design instead of ilvl differences).

Nobody cares about that ilvl difference on high rating, because there’s no ilvl difference there. But it made the gearing up of alts way more of a grind, and it made the boosting easier to do, and it made the people who never got above 2k before SL to feel like they had earned something “special”, because it would set them apart even more from the other players below them.

But in its core, it’s nonsensical for PvP gameplay, and it’s a waste of time for people playing more than one character, and don’t forget that there has always been progression in rated PvP.

Rating is progression. The better you perform, the higher rating you get. That’s literally progression. Then they have external rewards, such as cosmetics, which has kept increasing in the amount of cosmetics ever since rated was first introduced in TBC.

If you feel like there’s “no progression” in PvP without ilvl differences, then you should really take a hard look at why you’re even playing rated PvP when PvE would scratch that itch and it really doesn’t sound like rated PvP is what you’re truly after.

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+1! I agree 100%. Great post!

RSS is the only reason I am playing this game.

++++++++++

The whole win/loss rating is a mess. win 1 or 2 you lose over 50 rating. Win 4/6 gain less then 50 rating…
Even if you’re not the one dying in the losing games you still lose allot of rating.

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Suggestion to fix the rating system in shuffle something like this would fix what you’re talking about. Minimum amounts and maximum amounts on CR gained and lost per won/lost round. It’s just chaotic for most players the way it is right now, and that way would make it more predictable and reliable.

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they need to return to % based titles and rewards now

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If that’s the case then how comes normal arena is a hell of a lot quicker queue times than 30/40 minute wait time in solo shuffle??

@Ashamed nailed it.

what actually killed the game is the absurd amounts of dmg that is available to every single spec

healing is the most miserable thing ive ever seen in 10 years of healing. its fuken disgusting

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I wonder how many players confuse too much damage with fast dampening.