[Suggestion] Guild Wars + Sharding

PVP War Mode and World PvP
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From the start of BfA / War Mode many players where concerned with it’s impact on social structure of servers… Reading through “Defias WPvP Revival”, this comment from Tzuyú and “[A-WPvP] <Foolish Whisper>” - there must be something that could change this whole situation for the better without old PvP servers.

This is what this suggestion is about.

Suggestion / Idea :

Guilds can declare wars to other guilds (of opposite faction), and set allies from guilds of the same faction. 1 guild can have up to 3-5 wars and up to 3-5 allies.

Sharding will take Wars/Allies into account when placing players in shards, with this kind of prioritizing:

1. First prio for matchmaking system is to put players from the guilds at war and their friends on the same shard - Guilds of opposite factions who have each other in War list, and guilds from same faction who have each other in Allied list.

2. Second prio for matchmaking system is to put additional potential friends / foes - Guilds of opposite/same factions, with only one side/guild having the other on a war/allied list.

3. Third prio - Guilds/Players from the same server/cluster, if faction population for that server reasonably allows it.

4. Lowest prio - Everybody else who are not qualified for the above, and overflow population - current sharding/matchmaking.

Quite simple system, just like a friend list but for guilds - to give players some control of who they want to see in Open World with them and against them.

This could be quite a huge social feature for War Mode and the game as a whole, it would make possible to organize Guilds WPvP activities similar to how it was on PvP servers before, and also it would keep all benefits of current sharding / War Mode.

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Great idea, might make me join a guild! I love the random killing in wm, but guild enemies would be fun. Could give wm a sense of purpose. Right now wm is disorganized chaos, which is fun, but organized chaos in a war guild, fuuuun!

A reward might be needed for incentive. For example a guild leaderboard or something, allowing unlocks of war guild related perks, titles, etc.

Closest we currently have to achieving this is Spy addon, which can detect players in same guild as someone on your KoS list. And you can alert your guild. Not close enough to your suggestion, but closest we have I think.

I wonder if a new guild war addon could do the core of this, except the sharding. Ofc, you can’t control who uses the addon except in your own guild, it could be a requirement. Instead of detecting enemy players like Spy, it could solely detect enemy guilds. Guild member activity could be synced with other guild members, and presented in a leaderboard within the addon ui. Rewards from a guild bank tab could be defined.

I know there are addons that can do these types of things, the syncing, the detecting. Sounds like lot of work. Maybe someone will make the addon. Probably more likely to happen than blizz making shard changes.

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The main idea is for players to be able to somewhat influence matchmaking system for the shards they are in. That is also the main reward - ability to fight beside and against players you want to fight with/against - as a natural result of sharding prios happening behind the scenes according to players/guilds friends/wars lists.

With this, matchmaking could happen with a social structure that is controlled by players, and not with just random numbers like it is now (at least it looks like it).

As for rewards - I think a set of guild WPvP achievements and challenges, that would require to fight with guild allies and against guild enemies - would be more than enough. Especially if completing those achievement would unlock some interesting PvP items on a guild vendor, and/or cosmetics for all in guild to purchase.

Since it’s all about social aspect of WPvP and open world in War Mode (sharding / matchmaking) - I think rewards, if any, should also be about that social aspect - guilds.

Addons, - there is a VKoS that I switched to a couple of weeks ago - it allows to exchange KoS data with other players in the guild who’re using the same addon, also gathers WPvP stats like kills, where and when and how.

But unfortunately addons can’t do anything about matchmaking and shards, or make meeting players you would like to meet less of an RNG. That is why I think real improvements in that situation are possible only with Blizzard implementing this kind of a system for current matchmaking - friend/war lists for guilds.

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Ye sounds good, would potentially make wpvp guilds a thing!

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I was lead to this post by my other half, I did not realise we was tagged in it but thank you for referring to our post so we can make WPvP more active again and try to bring it back to life as for the PvE shards I don’t really think the guild rivalry is possible since there is so many differrent shards and it is way different to the RP shards that we play on.

As for the suggestions / ideas I don’t think that is what we would want personally I think working on the current warmode would be a much better route also make it so that PvE servers can’t phase into RP servers, also maybe even take LFG off of warmode to stop the aimless zerging and ruining the small scale fun fights.

I suggest to everyone to try and find an active WPvP guild that you like and can find great fun in and try it out we over here in Foolish Whisper have been working hard everyday to drive the cross-realmers out of our shard becuase we don’t like them and hate people that phase them over and wish it would come to a stop!

If you would like to get in touch with me for WPvP fights you can whisper me in game!

I hope to see you guys out in the world some day or even fight you if you come over to the RP shard some day good luck in your WPvP adventures!

Tzuyu :heart:

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What happens if there’s a mix of realm type players in a single group?

What happens if one faction in a shard has managed to create a zerg raid with guild or community members… but the other faction does not have adequate access to guild or community to recruit from?

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There’s definitely a solution that needs to be found, because there’s a very fine line between suffering because of a dead server, and harming the state of world PvP by making your own zerg raid.

The balance is incredibly delicate, and I think the solution might come in the form changing the maximum number of people allowed in a LFG group that has a leader with WM on. Perhaps allowing a maximum of 4 more WM-flagged players to phase into the leader’s shard, whilst leaving LFG with WM off as it is, so as not to disrupt solely PvE groups.

Whilst this would mean a level of inconvenience for WM players that are trying to zerg bosses, I think it’s a small price to pay to arguably salvage the small-scale spirit that Blizzard is trying to promote (see: band of brothers achievement), and making WM more of a committed world PvP option.

There’s no way to stop people grouping up with their own guilds, and I don’t believe there necessarily should be. There should be plenty of random players and guilds around to counteract it, as the absolute worst case is 40 players (which should be incredibly rare). From experience, the problem arises as soon as guilds with a tendency to form big groups (not naming any names) begin to phase in other guilds and cross-realmers to bolster themselves to 80 players.

A compromise is inevitable, but I hope we find one that benefits those who make world PvP their primary focus in this game - because there really isn’t anything else that can replace the feeling of WoW’s truly open world PvP.

In closing: to anybody reading this who struggles with cross-realmers, remember that two wrongs don’t make a right - and I encourage anybody who’s finding themselves the victim of a LFG zerg to try their absolute hardest to exhaust every possible resource and solution before turning to their own LFG group. Please think really hard before doing so, because it sets a very harmful precident.

There’s a dire shortage of world PvP guilds at the exact time that we need a resurgence. The OP kindly linked our recruitment thread in the first post, and I encourage anybody that’s looking to get a foot in the door of the RP shard WPvP scene to reach out.

I don’t think we can expect any giant mechanical changes from Blizzard for quite some time (if ever), but what we can do as a community is make an effort and keep networking, like we always have done, to ensure that we keep the world alive and dangerous.

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I agree with the general point of view, World PvP is my primary and probably the only focus in WoW, solo roams and small group PvP is my favorite activity, but I don’t think limiting LFG directly is a good idea, nor I think Blizzard will ever go for LGF/CR limitations. Current direction with War Mode, shards, Communities and LFG - has it’s benefits - open world is always alive and majority of players in it are always up for a fight.

Making a zerg raid is a choice, and I like systems/mechanics that discourage players from making that choice - like not able to complete quests/achievements in a group of more than 5. It would be great if there was more of that discouragement with more quests/achievements on a daily+weekly+monthly basis that can only be completed/progressed in a group up to 5 - to promote an idea of “a group of friends is better than a raid of zerg” with actual game mechanics.

With that said, currently on every assault (for example) or any other hotspot, when there is a lot of opposite faction it always starts with “anybody for that bounty? Common don’t die alone, join us and let’s wreck them” etc. Then after some time - there is still not enough numbers, and even those that are in local start to leave because of their own impatience. So the options are - give up on retaliation or go for LFG.

The thing is - this ^ situation happened mostly because player/guild has zero control of who there are around them - players who are going for LFG and don’t care, players who are just interested in doing that WQ and not in joining you for a fight, players who LFG’ed that opposite raid in the first place…

With a system like Guild Wars/Friends lists on top of current War Mode systems, to affect sharding prios - players/guilds would have an ability to somewhat control who there are around them.

There will still be randoms around, other guilds, etc - it’s not a replacement for current sharding / matchmaking - it’s an extension of what is already there.

The difference is - there would be more players around who join you without LFG, who would join the fight and not just a WQ, players who would not go for LFG, etc., and the need for LFG itself would be much less with more WPvP oriented local/shard already - because it’s you who influences matchmaking to put those players/guilds on a same shard with you.

If someone wants to do raids - they can surround themselves with other zerg-loving ppl. If someone likes solo/small scale more - there could be more like-minded players around on thier shard.

This could be a compromise solution to improve current WPvP, at least from a social point of view - some/majority of players around you and what they are interested in doing.

P.S.: Btw, linked guilds and players - they are really fun to play with and against! Reader of this wall of text, if you’re someone who wants more WPvP on RP cluster - give it a go, it’ll definitely be fun!

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I disagree that WPvP needs to be small scale. I love 1v1, 40v40, and everything in between. If I do encounter a zerg group, it’s usually in the 10 to 20 range though. Enough for a fun battle, but not enough for lag issues.

And guild war (could/should) mean… WAR! Small fights will happen, skirmishes, but guild war should involve battle. If rewards are tied to some sort of progression, there’s gonna be 40v40 all the time in every guild war shard.

For sure LfG makes responding to a 20 raid easier. Otherwise they would likely zerg unchecked. A guild war system could make LfG redundant for zerg response. Better that, than just remove LfG from those that want it. With a guild war system, joining a WPvP guild would be opting into a more focused WM, love it.

Guilds need a purpose. Raiding guilds, Arena/bg guilds, social guilds, etc. have clear purposes. Most join because that guild lets you do something you’d otherwise have difficulty doing. A WM guild needs a purpose. Right now in WM, you don’t need a guild for WPvP. Even though an active one would be fun for a WPvPer, it’s not ‘needed’. Give it a purpose. Guild wars! WM guild progression. I’d join one :slight_smile:

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As someone who is from an RP shard, the WPvP is usually small scale for yourself the bigger fights are more of a normal thing I would say RP shards are very different to PvE shards.

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How about adding a Guild Hall to WM, as an interactive interface for managing guild wars - kinda like class halls except not tied to one expansion. With WM guild quests, leaderboard interface, mission table for managing enemy and ally guilds, defining objectives, hall upgrades, hang out area.

I suppose you could have a guild hall for non WM guilds too, as long as we get WM stuff. Could help make WM guilds more a thing, in addition to the guild sharding.

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That ^ would be so cool!
But it’s a much more massive feature and probably would require a lot of design & dev time to make it right so it wouldn’t end up as Garrison 2.0.

Btw, that whole idea is mainly for players/guilds to be able to somewhat influence who are they sharded with. Maybe it could also be extended to communities? Like, for example:

  • we have this new interface panel with all communities and groups player is in.
  • in each there could be a “check box” of some kind - to make this community primary. Only one could be primary.
  • By making community primary - player would be much more likely sharded with other members of that community who have selected it as primary.

That could benefit not only WPvPers, but also other groups of players, like RPers, etc.

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Everything could be done in current guild/communities interface I’m sure, with some tweaks - and the sharding is ofc the priority.

Love the idea of an official blizz guild location tho, with some features that make sense to facilitate war :slight_smile:

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Great idea! Though, I am sure there must be some flaws. Some ways this can be exploited, right?

What about people in non-commiting guilds who might be left on their own in fights? Can a guild make another guild their enemy without a response? So what if one guild of gankers just goes around looking for “sheep” guilds to declare war on?

Again, great idea but you need to make sure as many pitfalls are filled in as possible!

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Anything can be exploited, the question is how bad/unhealthy it is for the system, hehe.

For non-committing guilds/players sharding will work just as it works right now. Sometimes they would be on shards with guilds at war because one of the sides didn’t have enough to fill the shard, other times they would be on a shard with non-committed guilds/players… So from a point of view of a player from a non-committed guild it is a complete RNG, just like it is now for everybody.

Basically, it could be similar to other parts of the game - raiding/m+/arenas/bgs are better with a guild/friends than with a pug. If player wants a bit of control of who there are around them in the open world - join a guild, set up wars, etc… if player doesn’t want that - same RNG chaos as now.

As for one-sided friends/wars - I think it should be an option, at least as a fallback when main sharding priority is not met before going for full RNG. To prevent “sheep” guilds from happening - every guild can have a switch similar to recruitment options - if they select PvP (or better, if they didn’t turn it off) then other guilds can declare wars or add them as allies. But I honestly think it would be a needless complication and nothing else, because for those who doesn’t want to be in WPvP - there is an option to turn it OFF already.

Also, it is not an idea to make anything fair in WPvP, it is an idea to give players some control of who they fight with and against in shards they are in. And since mutual wars/friends is the highest prio for sharding - those “sheep” guilds can have wars/friends with other “sheep” guilds to avoid being a “sheep” guild in the first place (I know, it’s a bit confusing, but it makes sense).

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I suspect for Blizz to even consider guild sharding, WPvP guilds need to have a greater presence in WM beforehand. Let’s see if we can strengthen the EU WPvP guild community, and hope Blizz take notice!

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Maybe. But since WPvP is not a mainstream activity like Raiding/Dungeoneering/Rated PvP, with only War Mode in this expansion doing something for WPvP in many years - many players still think that it’s an activity just to waste some time PvPing when you don’t have anything important to do.

And it is viewed as “don’t have anything important to do” and not “anything else” - just look how many players don’t want War Mode / WPvP / Open world to be rewarding and want anything but PvP talents removed.

Maybe 8.2 is going to change this perception, and maybe Open World + WPvP is going to be a full fledged game mode, maybe even more guilds and communities is going to be created for WPvP or with it in mind at least. I sure hope so, and going to add:

P.S.: Want to join WPvP guild / community, or tell others about yours - go here and DO IT

in my posts from time to time to keep it going.

Guild Wars/Sharding could be the case of “don’t know what they want until you show them”. As many other improvements and additions to WPvP.

Current perception of WPvP by many players is already set. So to change it - game must change first, to show that something that wasn’t a real game mode before - is now. Because that what War Mode is - Open World + PvP game mode.

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Your guild war concept would add an extra dimension to WPvP - and for sure could stimulate community. Love the idea. And yes, we’ll see what happens in 8.2!

However, if we wait for Blizz, we could be waiting a long time hehe. I believe it’s up to the players that have talked about community, missing community in WM, to do something about it. You are doing your bit!

A community needs a purpose, a reason to exist… guild conflict! Right now, we have some WPvP guilds and communities, but it feels disjointed. Sharding is a complication. But we can make the best of it. Need more, many more, to join WPvP guilds and communities, and actively hunt enemy guilds.

To make it happen, we gotta promote on this forum and in game. We need to get those that are interested to at least see the list of WPvP guilds and communities available.

The list badly needs Horde guilds and communities added… there must be enemy guilds!

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