There were less realms at the start. You did have some with a large population.
Doomhammer, where I have been playing since vanilla has gone from a full realm to an empty one.
As for the vanilla experience, the private server you are talking about was really close to what vanilla was like. Yes you had bugs, but the funny thing is. It were the same bugs as vanilla had.
You never played vanilla, so how can you decide for people wether or not it was like vanilla?
Guys, can we take this over to Yes to the lvl squish!
The amount of seperate threads on this is getting ridiculous. Please keep it in one thread.
i doubt they will do this expansion,but next one it needs to happen,at this point its silly to have 130lvl. i welcome the ilvl squish
Donât be so sure. Blizzard donât usually throw things out unless theyâre minded to do it.
Theyâre probably testing the waters for a squish and I think itâs got broad enough support. I think we will see it next expansion.
So far the only people that iâve seen actively supporting it canât even give me a single reason as to âWhyâ that they want it.
The only thing that they keep repeating is âBecause thereâs too many levelsâ or âWe barely get anything for leveling upâ which really isnât that good of an argument when you, again, think it through.
If they made WoW 60, why did they make Diablo 3 60 as well?
Turns out 60 is just a really good number for the way Blizzard designs RPGâs, because of the amount of upgrades they put in, and beacuse of the amount of zones they put in. The original game expected you to level up in brackets of 10 levels for each zone, with some taking a bit less like Westfall and Redridge, so around 6-8 brackets, and the idea was to give you incredible variety and travelling time to go around and see a lot of zones, but to still give it structure to get new spells and abilities and powers every 60 levels, and provide a grander structure in when you could go to the next zone layered on top of that to spice up the visual variety when it was about to get stale.
Today, 6-8 zones have been replaced with 6-8 continents. Weâre just running around to ridiculous amounts of outdated content, leaving it before weâve even gotten our feet wet, and just having a miserable time because thereâs no challenge.
Whatever level we squish level 60 players to? Seems pretty simple to me.
Probably not. I donât think Blizzard wants classic raids to be hard again, so theyâll pull out various buffs or other mechanics to make it so, if for some reason the sheer stat difference doesnât do it on its own. Theyâve alrady done this; you do MASSIVE bonus damage against low level targets, and in raids it goes up even more.
Well thatâs the big question. Levelling needs a lot of fixing, and I would argue that it cannot be fixed while the game has 120 or, God forbid, 130 character levels. Itâs just too many.
Personally Iâd prefer a more open-ended approach that still has statically scaled mobs and plenty of difficulty for those who go ahead of the questing curve and do orange or even red quests, and plenty of green quests for those who prefer that style.
I also donât think the game needs to have us visit that many continents and zones in such a short period of time. Iâd rather see less zones and get to dig into them a little bit more. I think the amount of XP we need is appropriate, but the levelling process gets too short because mobs are generally too easy to kill.
But all of that is things that need to be layered on top of the level squish. As far as the level squish itself is concerned, it likely wonât make any difference at all. Itâs perfectly possible to just squish, and leave it at that. I wonât recommend Blizzard do this, but they could.
It pretty much canât get worse than it already is. Twinks drove off all forms of low level PvP except twinking, and now that twinking was killed with the latest patch, the game canât even find enough players to create a match, because thatâs how much damage has been caused. It can only go up from here.
The two are completely unrelated.
Lv30. Theyâd be halving the amount of current levels soâŚ
âŚLike that.
Youâre right, It wonât. Itâs a purely visual change. Leveling however would take twice as long.
You still wonât get anything new every time that you level up. You need the old talent system if you want to fix that.
For some levels perhaps⌠It may cause some problems with trying to solo legacy content closer to endgame e.g. WoD/Legion stuff.
Yup.
There are a lot of people that are arguing against a level squish in like three or four other threads. You didnât need to open this one tbh.
How do you propose they can make older content not out-dated?
You would be very, very incorrect.
Thatâs true, I agree.
Thatâs a lie. Prove me wrong by giving me a source that proves your claims.
1: We werenât killed off.
2: Youâre scapegoating Twinks in to taking the blame for a situation that they did not create.
3: You can play PvP at low level still. It just takes far longer because they removed twinks who were merely speeding up the queue times.
Not you againâŚ
Well, you can update it?
If you donât want to do that though, and I understand why you wouldnât since itâs a lot of content creation to do, you can ⌠idk, squish the levels so it becomes optional?
Thatâs fine and you can have your point of view. I cba arguing with you about it anymore.
Because everyone literally writes down their reason for quitting.
Every time me or any one of my friends has tried to do low level PvP, weâve been instantly frustrated with twinks. Thatâs all I can tell you. If that isnât good enough for you, thatâs fine. I cba arguing with you.
1: Great. Then why were all the twinks complaining about the queue split?
2: No, they just took advantage of Blizzardâs ridiculous systems design, hence why Iâm blaming Blizzard for creating it and celebrating when they change it.
3: They were doing far, far more than merely speeding up queue times. Itâs ridiculous to suggest that you didnât cause frustration but stomping literal newbies trying to get into PvP.
Thatâs the risk you take when you visit the forums⌠You tend to encounter people that also visit the forums.
How frequently? And in what way? By adding events or revamping the entire thing?
You can only do one level squish. It is not a miracle change that magically fixes any and all problems like how some people on this forum like to think it is.
Itâs not an argument. You can give me a few good reasons why itâs impossible and iâll give you a few good reasons why itâs not.
Itâd be a civil conversation between two people in where both parties present facts that has a logical conclusion to it.
âŚAssuming that you keep deleting those swear-words before you post, of course.
If I recall, Blizzard sends surveys to players that quit the game asking why they quit, so yes there is Data on that regardless on whether everyone answers those surveys or not. Surely some people do.
Not exactly a good source. Personal experiences tend to be biased and only account for a single instance. They can also more often that not be unable to be verified, or can be massively inflated. You canât base an entire argument on them when said argument is about the bigger picture.
An eyewitness account can also be false due to the person giving it having been mistaken, for example: For all you know the person who killed you wasnât a twink at all and just an enchanted heirloomer.
Are you really that dense? Theyâve been complaining about it because Exp-locked battlegrounds do not proc at all.
âŚLooting gear is an abuse of system design? Golly, I better go and warn the Mythic+ players and Raiders.
Itâs also ridiculous to suggest that I didnât cause frustration when I stomped those same newbies in bgs at lv120, Or perhaps when I killed them in World PvP at lv120 or in Rated Arena at lv120.
This is such a bad argument.
Instead of crying about how you got stomped by a better player why donât you just learn the game and become a better player yourself?
âŚNot to mention that this entire argument isnât even applicable to just Twinks alone. âNewbiesâ are going to get stomped regardless of who they face unless they face another âNewbieâ. Thatâs life.
I suppose, and obviously you have a right to be here. Iâm just bored of quotewarring you.
I donât know; I wasnât arguing in favour of it.
But I can think of a couple of different of different ways. How much has happened, and how many assets do we already have?
But at the end of the day it just sounds like Cataclysm 2.0, so I donât know if itâs worth it.
But I just donât think it should be mandatory to run through 10-12 year old content. Thatâs all Iâm saying. No more, no less.
No, itâs not. Never said it was. I said itâs an enabler. Among other things, it enables us to make more level overlaps because we have less levels to go through, and mobs within the zone will wonât need to have too massively different levels.
Of course scaling can chuck the whole thing out the window, but the problem is it also chucks most of the progression out of the window, which is the argument we had in the other thread, and Iâve already argued my case there and wonât bother again.
No, itâs not. I specifically claimed it wasnât.
Oh no, Iâm rude.
Oh, so it did make twinks go away.
No, locking your XP at deliberate points in order to collect endless gear at a point where people are supposed to outlevel their gear as they accrue it is.
Now, I know that Blizzard deliberately implemented that. Iâm suggesting that letting those people into the same room as the levellers was a mistake. Obviously, Blizzard agrees.
At level 120 you should expect people to have a fairly strong grasp of the game. Theyâve played it for quite a while at this point and a most likely hooked regardless. At that point they can get over it.
First impressions are uniquely important, and thatâs exactly what twinks are messing with.
Yes, letâs make the argument a personal attack now. Iâm so rude.
The point is to try to make sure thatâs what happens.
Thank you blizz,it was about time ,it should have been sooner but better them never,hope it comes next expansion even better in bfa.
Me too tbh.
Letâs not do that then.
Yeah iâll just not reply to this one lest we start the conversation from last post up again.
Not really. People are still twinking, just with enchanted heirlooms on fresh allied races. Itâs never been easier to farm levelers tbh, or so I hear.
So itâs fine if they donât out-level the gear? We must notify the aforementioned semi-twinks of this good news.
Newbies get a free instant lv110s, so that throws that argument pretty much out of the window.
Then Twinks are the least of your problems.
I meant âYouâ are in âNew playersâ and âPeople who are bad at PvPâ, not you specifically unless youâre one of those two xD
That whatâs what happens? Stomping âNewbiesâ?
Why do you want a Level Squish? What do you personally believe that it will change?
Technically, nothing. But since it technically changes nothing, we could also have 1200 levels but speed up leveling 10 times faster. Would that feel good?
Its about the feels, not about technical issues.
Everything is going to be the same, except we wont level up in an hour but get new skills every 10 levels, but weâll spend 2 hours to level up and get new skills every 5 levels. It will feel like levels are more meaningful.
If you think its not going to change anything, you can just roll with it.
But we donât. I also didnât say that we should not find a solution that fixes an evergrowing level cap.
Keep that in mind for when it goes live and it doesnât feel the way that you initially thought that it would so that I can tell you âI told you soâ.
You need a proper talent system for leveling up to mean something again, and that talent system is the one that they got rid of. The one that actually gave you a point every time that you leveled up that made you feel like you were working towards the abilities that you got every 5-10 levels.
I do not want pointless changes being made for the sake of making changes.
I want changes that actually make the game better.
A level squish on its own will do no such thing.
If theyâre going to do one then I want them to also give us the old vanilla-tbc-wrath style talent tree but with updated talents so that we get a point for every level that we gain ĂĄnd I want them to squish the levels specifically as I wrote them down:
Anything less or different than this will be a massive disappointment.
I didnt say you did. However you seem to be thinking that âevergrowing level capâ might need a solution.
lol ok.
Level squish wont bring 1 talent each level back, but its a start that reduces the intervals.
It will make the feeling better. Transmog doesnt technically change anything either, but it feels better to have it. Would you say no to more transmog, mounts etc?
So you even made new level and pvp bracket tables to your liking, you want the old talent system, but youâre against the level squish? Dude. You have to agree with us to get what you want, not oppose us.
I also want the old talent system, but this doesnt make me disagree with the level squish. When you want something changed, you gotta go step by step.
You wont get what you want with this attitude. Prepare to be disappointed.
Of course it does. You can only do one level squish, which means that if they halve the levels now and use the numbers that I just provided then they can put off having to stop increasing the level cap for⌠letâs say⌠4 more expansions? Granted if those expansions only increase the level cap by 5 levels, not by 10 levels. Otherwise weâll be right back off to where we are now; âWe have too many levels!!â.
Right, thatâs what I said, but the reduced intervals wonât be enough and it does nothing to fix the problem that is âLeveling up means nothing because we donât get anything for doing so.â
IF all you want is the level next to your portrait to say â60â, then get an addon that does that for you. Donât shove this change down the throats of every other player.
Iâm against a level squish if it does not go the exact way that I just said how it should go.
Not really. Thereâs no reason why we should have to do this step-by-step. In fact, it makes more sense to announce getting the old style of talent trees back at the same time of announcing a level squish because itâd actually make many people feel better about it.
A Level Squish all by itself itâs a completely worthless change.
I am and for a good reason.
I disagree.
Well done.
Then convince me that itâs not. You havenât given me a single valid argument that a simple addon wouldnât fix for you.
Nobody can convince you of anything. Youâre more stubborn than a territorial goat. You have decided that you donât want this, and nothing is ever going to sway your opinion.
But itâs okay - nobody needs to convince you anyway.