Granted win that makes AV much better on horde side than on alliance side. And as soon as horde started to play turtle meta the win was more or less granted except they had to play against a premade.
When horde started to play the turtle meta their queue was around 10-15 minutes. Many people asked them why are they making the game longer than it’s necessary and their answer was not because the queue time, but because they wanna pvp and play for win, instead of a pve race. Which is totally acceptable, but it also meant they maximized the unfair map advantage and that made the game what it is today.
When horde is pushing SP GY the alliance team resurrects at SP GY and horde at SH GY, so there’s always more horde guarding the IWB choke, since it’s right at their route to SP.
There’s no way for alliance to gather up a large enough group to break through IWB and recap SH GY. All they can do is to wait till horde hard caps SP, then they can push through IWB choke, since most horde res at SP at that point.
But then all is left for alliance is to rush down to IB and take out some LTs before the game ends.
You really don’t get it? I said that’s also part of it but queue time also has an impact. I you still fail to understand it after all my attempts of explaining it then I will give up now for real.
Yeah, 10-15 min is pretty long queue already. Ofc that’s what ppl say, but reality is that with much shorter queue they didn’t do that.
Queue time indeed has an impact and map unbalance is not the only factor, but I still think that map is the most significant factor not the queue time.
If the map grants 66% winrate with a strategy that doesn’t require any coordination, that has way biger impact on players’ motivation than queue time.
I’m not denying that queue time is not part of the problem because if there are better honor farming options available it makes more tempting to abandon a low winrate BG.
But that doesn’t explain how AV ended up with 100% horde wins.
We can agree, that the ranking system is a cancer and the pvp community is full of min-maxers on both sides but that still doesn’t mean alliance rankers would not play AV if it would be fun.
But they don’t, because they tried AV and found it so rigged that it just not worth the effort to try again and again for that 1-2% win chance. Not because it’s not that efficient for honor farming but because it’s not fun to play.
Now the real question is what can we do about it.
I think there’s nothing to be done.
Eventually every alliance will abandon AV completely like they did with the unbalanced pvp realms.
It took about 6 months for horde queue time go up from 20 min to 2 hours. Before AB there were 80-90 AV running at the same time, now there are 7-8 and decreasing. If it reaches 1-2 then most horde will not get into AV at all, then AV will be officially dead.
Like you say, it went from slightly horde favored win rate, due to map imbalance, to extremely horde favored, due to alliance rankers abandoning AV, due both to low win rate and much better alternatives for honor. In addition the higher win rate made more horde rankers join AV as well, both due to high winrate and due to it being comparably better for honor on horde side. The explanations are right there. Sure we can argue which has a bigger impact, and we can never know, but both are valid reasons. As long as its too bad honor it doesn’t matter if its fun because you can’t rank up without getting in a high enough bracket compared to other rankers of your faction. Sadly that’s the reality of the honor system in classic. Sure, you could still rank up in AV but you would need to play twice as many hours to reach the same bracket so when everyone started to make that switch you had to follow to stay competitive.
Before they all stopped going AV the win rate was way, way higher, but yes it is a valid point anyway. And no, I don’t think there’s anything we can do. I don’t do AV anymore either and when I stopped doing it back in May the win rate was maybe like 80% for horde… Honestly, I kind of don’t think it would spiral this far if it wasn’t for the incentives created by the honor system.
Horde choke is in front of the GY they cann rezz and get back to the flag faster and the alliance needs to get through it first to reach the ibgy. The Alliance choke is behind the gy where horde can get the SH and perma close respawn at the choke while alliance needs to walk half a mile to get back there.
IBGY is easier to defend than SHGY on first attack
This whole topic is about SH GY. Alliance reach SH GY first and ress close and have the advantage. If Alliance can’t hold SH GY without pushing south then the map have nothing to do with that.
I have been in AV games against Russian premades where they defended SH GY and we Defended IBGY for 30min. SF GY was tagged back and forth between us. After 30min the whole Russian team vanished and let us win. Wasn’t worth it for them to push for a slow win. Map balance doesn’t do that. The rewards and queue system does.
So you are telling me that a pug of horde being able to hold for 30 mins a same native language premade (to the point that they quit because there was no reason to go on) has nothing to do with map imbalance?
The fact IB is so easy to defend a Horde pug can do it against a premade seems like a result of map balance. So is the fact that they weren’t capable of taking SF.
We had 1h40min queue in that game and Alliance had 2min queue. We was WAY more motivated to stall and defend that game. We had practice against premades for months on end and the map is designed for slow games so if you have 40 players that are motivated to defend and stall then it WILL take a lot of time, even if it’s a full premade.
If we would switch sides it would ever easier to defend and stall. Especially now when the backdoors are closed.
Map design was changed and we got the one for 20-30 min long games, not caps.
Also you are basically saying that your everyday pug of horde is more skilled by fault or just for sheer motivation… the level of bias is just over the chart.
By motivation yes. Having close to 2h queue and actually ranking in AV REALLY motivates you.
We are having a different opinion. Are you saying that I am BIAS that play both factions in Classic and have played AV for years on various private servers as both factions? That’s not what the word Bias means.
YOU on the other hand are BIAS.
Answer me this. Why are Alliance winning more on the AV weekend on the same map? What is the ONE thing that changes?
If we would switch sides it would ever easier to defend and stall.
Yes. The fact that the only choke one side has is after the other side has access to 2 wing commanders and the summon boss totally makes it easier to defend and stall on Alliance than on Horde.
I’m saying you are biased because you think that in hundred of Thousands of players you think Horde ones are just better at PvP in AV (which is the only asymmetrical map) and it’s normal for them to hold premades to a stall just because they are motivated. Meanwhile symmetrical BGs have a rough 50/50 ratio and premades vs pug is almost always a victory for the premades.
The only reason you win AV so much is just because of map advantages, some of them have been fixed.
Are you then claiming that defending SH is easier than defending IB? You know the GY that has multiple ways to it compared to the one that is behind a choke and lets defenders harass attackers from behind?
Then please explain me what did you say. Because average horde player having the same coordination of a premade sounds a lot like horde players being better than alliance players.