With the difficulty increase the Blizzard would need to start scaling the gear of the players for that content, so that the raiding one doesn’t give advantage to anyone. Everyone should start from the equal ground in that content than.
Ah well until recently I would have agreed with you but then this happened…
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Back in the days if you had good gear ment you’re an awesome player, yet atm if I inv a 410 random for m+ I do t know what can I wait from them. Literally most of them are garbage. Can’t interrupt can’t move out of shuts and they are ruining the run and fun of others.
So nah make gear matter again and don’t hand it to random questing plebs
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Lol the elitist prickery dripping off this thread is a sight to behold. ![:rofl:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
“You don’t deserve those pixels man! You didn’t WORK for it like I had to! Reeeee!” - Get a life.
This is a video game and everyone has paid money to play it. Titanforging is the best thing ever for anyone that isn’t in the privileged position of having a guild/friends in the game to play with.
I’m on my way to acquire a full set of titanforged LFR gear and I will wear it with pride just to trigger nerds.
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I’ve stopped playing 120’s - Up to legion I always geared up via PvP, without PvP Vendors and a currency system, and crap gear randomly given to you I don’t feel the inclination to log on a 120.
People talk about WF / TF being a bad system for character progression, ability pruning and lack of any new abilities after level 80, except for 2 talent rows is far worse for the game and character progression. The odd TF piece in comparison is no where near as game breaking as the lack of character progression for essentially 40 levels
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Like me, but for me it sucks.
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Sorry, that’s BS.
I am raiding heroic and do M+ around 10-12.
I am fully aware, I don’t do content as challenging as mythic raiders or players timing M+15.
Many here wrote of effort, but I think effort is the wrong term. Doing all WQs for 2 weeks is a lot of effort, but not a lot of a gameplay challenge. I think these two should be balanced in some way, but the current RnG approach feels very unsatisfying to me. There are upgrades that come out of nowhere (maybe a M+5 instead of a +10) and beat anything I could aim for in my realm of possibly challenging content, I need to hope for a huge RnG spike to get anything better and these are as frequent so you can’t get your baseline BiS gear before you get several lucky drops that beat them out, just because of luck.
I don’t see any goal to aim for, because baseline BiS is far lower than what I can easily aquire, BiS 425 is out of reach for anyone and there is no realistic middle ground I can aim for as the current best is most likely only based on the upgrading RnG and the chances to get a single BiS piece is so slim even mythic raiders and M+18 regulars are not likely to get one within a season (because it means BiS baseline item forging to +425 with a socket and teritary - even without the tertiary I think it is very rare - I would be really interested what percentage of CE players have one or multiple of those).
Especially because many of those BiS items have a lower baseline itemlevel than 415, so you need 5 steps of upgrading, for max itemlevel.
This however feels like an unfair point, base drop chances are very high compared to pretty much any other RPG I played (or compared to previous iterations of WoW).
I think 1 of 3 bosses drops loot for you and most bosses have 3 or 4 items (most of them 3), so you have a 10% chance to get your baseline item per try (I know weapons are more rare) plus the option that someone might be able to trade, this is way above any previous (pre TF/WF) WoW dropchances.
I very much like this idea, it leaves the option for high chance to get entry level gear, so you can quickly equip for the content you aim for (the lack of catchup option was previously a little annoying, as you where dependent on some low drop chances while gearing) and you still keep players from getting their best gear to quickly (if you slap a 20% chance for 5 Ilvl upgrades on it you would have a .4% chance per boss to get your best item - 1 in 250 does not seem excessive - with trading and manual upgrading you might want to tone it down a bit more).
I think this would be a valid way to reduce the negative impact of RnG, however I think your proposed numbers are way to high.
You should be able to upgrade very few pieces to their maximum level within a season. The maximum gear is nothing players should really get. They should get a few pieces but all gear maxed out should be unlikely, because it would nullify any extrinsic factors to do content.
Currently there are 11 or 12 slots that are eligible for upgrading, so I would aim for something around 6-8 WF->TF upgrades possible in a season via currency (there might be some from RnG so you would already get close to every slot upgraded).
As long as you do not exceed the baselevel of the next difficulty, I don’t see a huge issue in some RnG.
There can be constant progression, it should just be tied to some sense of investment/difficulty (and to be honest I don’t see titanforging in world quests to be the big offender). You get to current normal raid equipment very easy via content that is a lot less challenging than normal raids (e.g. warfront quests, emissaries). Running normal raids is a lot harder and more timeconsuming than doing 3 emissary quests and in neither is guaranteed loot for specific slots and both are somewhat realistic in one week. Getting a 400 Ilvl piece close to every other week from warfronts that is a 20-30 minute investment ridicules people that actually raid normal mode for gear. If you tell me these modes are challenging or take a lot of effort I am honestly surprised. I would rather see world quest rewards scale to a higher level so people who are not into dungeons, raids or PvP get more progression than have these once in a while quests with to high rewards.
If gear would scale to the current (average) Ilvl (I honestly don’t know why current content limited to steps of 5) for worldquests you could target your weaker pieces to slowly progress your gear. In combination with limited availability of gear via world quests (or at least the maximum itemlevel - there are several quests rewarding lesser quality gear currently) and the chance of limited upgrades, this could easily scale to the level of current emissary rewards (baseline) and therefore offer a maximum close to heroic gear, while still limiting the speed of progression to be reasonable and a long term goal.
I honestly don’t think so.
If players doing easier content are envious because they can’t achieve the best gear this is exactly what they blame “the elitists” are doing. They compare themselves to others and are envious.
This is what really annoy me. I don’t care what others have, but I don’t want 425 gear dangling in front of my nose, with a chance that will probably not happen on an item I would like it to. But instead I get an upgrade on an item with bad secondaries to forge up and the next 50 times I get my BiS item for this slot I have to curse, because the missing 15 itemlevels still make the other item better and I have no chance to increase the chances for my BiS item to get competitive.
I want somewhat reasonable chances to aim for not the long shot.
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Sorry that’s on MMO Champion pointing to another fan site.
Show the original Blue post and I’ll trust the source, but unofficial fansites shouldn’t be and aren’t gospel.
I will bite because stupid posts like this always appear herp derp elistism when it’s totally not. Some are very elitist I agree but there are multiple reasons people dislike TF.
I dislike TF not because some bad player in LFR gets a big fat 425 TF with socket and an extra stat. I couldn’t care less about that aspect, it’s a side effect of the system. Although people are quick to complain about Raider IO and the likes when we can’t use ilvl as an indication of ability because anyone can get high gear levels without being skilled.
I dislike TF because gear does not feel rewarding, it used to be that you worked your way to a new boss and then the only thing after killing it was whether or not that boss would give you loot. Now it’s an RNG fest. Will I get loot, will that loot be the item I want, will it have a decent TF/WF on it, will it have an extra stat, will it have a socket, will it have a higher ilvl.
TF has destroyed BiS gear. You used to have a clear goal you could work towards but TF/WF threw that out the windows. It was also obtainable, eventually after killing a boss repeatedly (farm runs) you were bound to be able to get the item you needed. It was also easier to prio gear to people based on things like this.
TF means that when we get a new boss down and I do get loot it’s not even necessarily an upgrade, due to some other time from a lower difficulty being TF/WF. Getting a baseline item feels disappointing. I prefer the only RNG being the boss dropping the item, not all these added extra layers.
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They had a summit at Blizz, the various content creators invited have shared what information Blizz have told them. Taliesin has also confirmed this information in one of his streams.
You wont get it as a blue post. Blizz has just shared all this information with a selection of Content Creators that they flew out to Blizz HQ.
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Apparently a lot don’t want to see comments like this.
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I would be all for a manual upgrade system.
Like if we got a currency from our chest at the end of every week, and say after 2-3 weeks of running +10s we could use this currency to manually upgrade our gear from a +5 chest piece to a +10 chest piece.
That way, the +10 chest piece can still drop naturally by doing a +10 dungeon but it can also be gotten by grinding lower level dungeons for longer time.
This way, you are still rewarded massively by doing a +10 because you save this currency that you can then use to boost 1 piece of gear from +10 to say +12. Simultaneously as the people who are not good enough to push +10 can still grind the content they can comfortably do to gear up for pushing higher keys/raids.
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Titanforge is here to stay, not because its nice or fair but just because it makes players to actually repeat playing same content again and again and again as blizzard plans(maybe) something new to keep us occupied.
I must have around 60 runs at SotS, got my first conch trinket after 30 rounds in over +10 keys. Now at around 55 managed to get a 410 while before i get my 400 ive been with a priest that did not know he had to stand inside the ward on ground to NOT die and clear stacks and got a 420+socket.
Or people that never even step foot inside that dungeon and got it ez pz high ilvl from their weekly chest after completing a weekly atal dazar 10.
Thats the way it is and its here to stay because we are not that smart and get baited by it. ![:joy:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=6" ":joy:")
Like Valor points / timeless coins then?
A system btw that’s no longer in the game - the Timeless Coin upgrade was removed as recently as the start of BfA
So your telling me its ok for a heroic raider to tell everyone what they deserve and what they dont ok gotcha .
Blizzard as i have said already know its a problem and the ideas the OP has linked have been on the forums since end of WOD there is nothing new to say apart from weekly drama flame thread about the subject .
If people bother to read others facts and links it would help .
But the tone of the OP is nothing more then condescending.
Call it BS if you will but i could take it from the 9/9 mythic guy but from somebody like the OP no thanks .
and during last blizzcon they explained with details why those systems were removed from game.
if you had virtual ticketyou would know this.
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Yeah and their reasoning for it was dumb in my opinion.
They say its bad because there is an ‘‘end’’ to character progression, and what is wrong with that? You know some people want to stop the gear treadmill for a couple of weeks inbetween each tier to test out their toon at max efficiency before resuming the gear treadmill next raid tier.
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I wasn’t looking for a reason - merely stating a fact.
The reasoning for it’s removal is irrelevant, other than asking for something back that has just been removed seems unlikely. I guess people couldn’t find the upgrade vendor, just like we couldn’t apparently find the PvP vendor and weren’t capable of picking the right piece of gear.
Or like having choice of secondary stats by having multiple gems slots or having reforging of stats to customize our characters.
Indeed. And I am ‘done’ now too with my character. There is no reasonable way to think I will get an upgrade. But I am still playing.
How many times Blizzard has to say how it does not create the raiding content and the progression in it with a titanforging in mind ? For the people like you that thing needs to be repeated often. And why do you need to have all BIS items on your char, when you can perform good enough even without that, I don’t understand that mindset. You want to limit to the other players the character progression in the season ( everyone cept mythic raiders ) , just coz you want to have all the BIS…