What's up with the hate from alliance players on this forum?

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Why are you all so toxic?

  1. Alliance is the superior faction for both pvp and pve.
  2. Blizzard is literally helping alliance get a higher chance of winning in Alterac Valley by allowing you to queue as a full 40-man raid team (or you’re also capped at a 5-man party in which you’re breaking the rules by using outside sources to get a 40-man premade but Blizzard isn’t banning you for it)

Let me guess. You all think everything’s Blizzard’s fault for making “horde the better faction”. You losing how many AV games because “horde has better racials”? You losing any pvp fight even when you outnumber horde because “horde has better racials”?

And because “horde is the better faction” and everything’s Blizzard’s fault, you go full on toxic mode and harass any post with a horde character as their profile. Is that it? You’re blowing off steam by harassing and threatening people?
Well done. I actually thought that most lvl 60 alliance players were mature and sensible adults (we all know the characters RPing NSFW actions in Goldshire aren’t adults) compared to Horde. At least on my server the majority of Alliance players are mature (few exceptions of griefers who are doing it for the memes).

Here’s a hint for you to think about before you start harassing and threatening me in the comments:
What would’ve happened in that previous AV game you lost if:

  1. You dismounted and fought back against that warrior who charged you on your mount, slowed you and slowly picked you off at the start of the game?
  2. The 3+ alliance players in front/behind you dismounted and helped you out in killing that pesky horde who took you on in a 1v1?
    Would the outcome be any different if you actually pvpd in a Battleground where pvp is required to win?

Maybe get off the forums, stop being toxic towards every horde profile picture and start playing the game like it’s supposed to. Maybe something will change.

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Yawn.

Plenty of threads like this already.

  1. You dismounted and fought back against that warrior who charged you on your mount, slowed you and slowly picked you off at the start of the game?
  2. The 3+ alliance players in front/behind you dismounted and helped you out in killing that pesky horde who took you on in a 1v1?
    Would the outcome be any different if you actually pvpd in a Battleground where pvp is required to win?

In both situations nothing would change they would respawn and eventually send them back to SH since Horde are closer to the middle of the map.

We all know AV favors Horde that is why you have a 85%+ WR in it and in WSG/AB nothing even close to that WR. Is it that Horde are just better at AV and suck at WSG/AB or is it something else like map imbalance?

Not only that the PvP system favors a fast game for Alliance with 2 minute queues it’s better to lose fast than win slow. This is what the ranking system promotes.

I feel a lot Alliance players are the way they are because of the amount of Horde whiners. The majority of Alliance that got camped at FP and BRM during P2 had to get on with it and nothing was done but the slightest sign of Alliance pre mades in AV in which Horde still had 50% WR and well you only have to scroll back to see the amount of salty cry babies coming on these forums to spit their dummies out…crying their hearts out about how it’s unfair and yet only a few months prior they was 10 v 1 out in WPvP living the life.

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its not about AV being horde favored (its not, its alliance favored) its about alliance players having a super defeatist attitude.
wipe on first attempt on IB/rush = 70% of alliance team goes afk.

WHY are they defeatist? because they’d rather just lose quick and queue up again since queue is short, whereas horde queues are 30 minutes+ and 60 minutes+ on a slow day.

as you can imagine, Horde players have much better incentive to actually fight to win, and that is why Horde wins and Alliance lose.

the problem begins with yourself; if you want to win you have to put in the effort. if you don’t want to put in the effort, then don’t be surprised when you lose the game(s) and start crying about how the map is unfair etc.

if you all remember the first 2 months after AV’s release, alliance won EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM in less than 10 minutes at that!
due to the map favoring alliance it was a base race every single game, and guess what, alliance ALWAYS got to Horde base first and killed Drek before Horde even got to Dun Baldar.

the fact you cannot premade anymore and are now losing every game didn’t change anything with the map, it changed the attitude of the players playing on said map.

for real, how can you sit there and say the map is horde favored after roflstomping the horde for 2 months straight in 8 minutes, game after game after game?
are you delusional? :smiley:

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Why would nothing change exactly…?

The horde would lose frontline players and the alliance would have MORE people on the frontlines.

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Alliance winning every game lasted for like a week not two months so I don’t know what you’re talking about. And yes if horde doesn’t defend and tries to rush they are going to lose. I find it kind of funny how horde try to argue that the problem is the alliance attitude and what not yet the winrate in other BGs where the maps are much more symmetrical is basically 50/50 when it’s pug v pug despite the fact horde have longer queues there as well. Guess there is no problem with attitude there. Wonder why anything would be different on a distinctly asymmetrical map?

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Most alliance players are kids, we all know if you’re 18+ you roll horde.

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but it is the alliance attitude.

alliance already asks for a loss when they rush south like idiots at the start and lose 20+ people on the way to intercepting horde.

then wonder why the 15leftover get wiped by defending horde at ibgy.

then procceed to afk and call everyone trash in the chat because they actually try to defend.

problem is alliance rankers just want to slay lt for bonus honor then have a quick loss rather than defending and go for a win. and if you have 10 of these morons in a single av + the usual 10-15 afkers good luck.

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50% win ratio for Horde even with alliance premades, that’s how good map is for Horde.

Now, can you explain me, in a detailled way how av map is better for Alliance?

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It’s a strange thing all round. I probably played my first AV just before TBC launched and at that time and for as long as I can recall it was Alliance dominated. Horde had to be very organised to get a win and there was a set method of what to take and what to skip balanced with what to defend. You needed to think about not taking a GY as it would mean Alliance spawned there rather than close to somewhere you were trying to capture. If you could stop that initial rushfest (from both sides) it gave a better chance at a win.

As things are now, I’m definitely seeing more afkers on each side, more potential botters and more of those who just sit on their mounts not doing much at all. There’s also more of the “just let them win” mob who tend to be accused of being Alliance who’ve rerolled Horde though less so in AV compared with the other bgs. The difficult battles for Horde seem to be those where the Alliance do defend well and keep pushing and retaking and I don’t doubt Alliance have the same shouts for people to ‘recall’ that we do but seemingly ignored by the majority. Won a battle this week against an excellent Russian team that gave the best fight I’ve seen in a while and pushed it to over an hour with the win coming down to the wire with both teams on the bosses at the same time. Also lost one to an Alliance rush exploit (newsflash, both sides do it, it isn’t just Horde). Horde got pinned at the bridge choke point which is the most lethal choke point on the map yet so underused by the Alliance in most battles. It’s a tactic issue not a map issue when that keeps being overlooked.

It’s very clearly an issue with team mentality when with the exact same set up previously Alliance used to steamroll Horde in AV but now they don’t. The only significant change is the players and the imbalance in queue times. Unfortunately there’s a vocal minority who rather than putting their energy into getting their team to play the battle tactically prefer to endlessly trot out the same old nonsense about racials and maps even when history shows those Alliance that played the same thing first time round didn’t find either to be a problem.

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Lol if you start like that then obv the rest of your post isn’t worth reading.

It’s not like horde has any problem at all facerolling any of the pve content.

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Another way to say “i am a moron and clueless”.

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This list is not a whine post, just a statement of reality in regards to map design. AV is certainly, factually, mathematically, not alliance favoured.

  • It’s so alliance favoured that by the time we get to Balinda Horde have already crossed the field of strife. It takes average just under two minutes to run from our cave to IB GY, it takes horde average 1 minute 20 secs to SH GY. Even if horde die, they still got that additional 30 seconds to respawn at IB GY to counter the incoming alliance. Meaning that Horde at the start of the game has the dominant position and the alliance a reactive position

  • It’s so alliance favoured that camping SP and SH GY is so god damn easy, when Hordes equivalent GY’s the horde have routes of escape

  • It’s so alliance favoured that if alliance recall to DB whilst horde have DB GY, then the recaller has to deal with the horde players plus horde npc flag defenders. Whilst the Hut GY is out of the way so any horde recallers only have alliance to deal with.

  • It’s so alliance favoured that Drek has two respawning dogs with him when Vann Does not.

  • It’s so alliance favoured that the Alliance back door exploit (or should say exploits becuase there are two) only requires like one jump, when the horde base version takes 3 jumps and one of the jumps you need to be an olympic gym medalist to perform. And despite the many calls for these back door base jump exploits, Blizz does nothing.

  • It’s so alliance favoured that IB GY has multiple lts/commanders compared to SH GY.

  • It’s so alliance favoured that the two summoning bosses, that the alliance summoning location is out in the middle easy to spot, compared to the horde summon spot which is far more concealed (lets not forget that Ivus summoning bug still not being sorted). And that Lok’holar gets stronger with each kill whereas Ivus doesn’t.

  • It’s so alliance favoured that the IB GY chokepoint is far more difficult to defend due to the frequency of horde respawning nearby in their cave compared to that of horde holding the SH GY/IW bunker chokepoint.

The list can go on

We cal also add non map advantages for the horde have right now. Such as due to Allies having instant queues, it encourage afkers, bots and half heartedness in players. So often if i am in AV, that there is a good portion of players who aren’t really there or even trying.

Which in turn factored to the encouragment of premading AV runs. Everyone was active in the game, no afkers, no bots, co-ordination etc. Would have been nice if they allowed server based premades for AV. That would have discouraged the need for the discord cross realm premades which wrecked the AV queue system. People joined these AV premades to counter the imbalance. But even alliance attempts at countering this imbalance, got the banhammer from Blizz. Resulting back to square one. The situation we are in now. With these imbalances as described.

Also that instant queues discourages players from turtling unlike hordes long queues benefitting them if they turtle. Hence why allies love fighting russian players becuase they too have instant queues so they don’t need end up turtling, and that the game is more of a race than a slow drawn out game.

All this, i can see why the defeatist attitude is here on alliance with regards to AV. If i was playing a different game, the map was against my favour, a good portion of my team were afk, semi afk or bots, and any attempt to team up to counter the previous two points got squashed, and having been going on repeateadly, no wonder the moral will be extremely low to begin with.

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Someone seems to be mad for being killed a lot :slight_smile:

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It’s the only viable option. If alliance misses the early opportunity to get ib they end up in a situatuon where horde gets 2x respawns (due to how the 3 central gy access is designed).

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Your the one that sounds toxic tbh

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because they are alliance but really both sides are toxic regardless who you play as but which ones the worst one should be decided by your experience.

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Wow, we have a time-traveller here. Straight from 2019 he came.

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Are you trolling, is this a joke point or something? What in gods name are you talking about?
Av premades DIED because blizz specifically CHANGED THE GAME because ally were winning games in av, they made it so you can ONLY queue 5 man max. If you want 20 people in one single av, you have to queue now with 300 people minimum for one single match.

That doesn’t happen. The only premades now that exist are russian because of how it works for russians being put together on the same team etc.

You idiot. There were no rules broken. To get av premades the alliance just queued all at the same time and talked to eachother on discord to get into the same voice comms.

YOU pringles cans could do that with pugs if you tried but you don’t. Nothing TOS about it, alliance just won so blizz intervened.

Now ally lose 99% of games and blizz does nothing about it. The frustrating part is the obvious bias.

The current problem is purely that now ONLY trash ally, memers and good players having FUN not playing objectives. Whilst horde has decent players, trash players and honor farmers.

Good ally do not play av anymore together or at all, only WSG mainly and then AB premades etc.

We still after all this time since AV release have a bot / afk problem in AV, where 10+ people aren’t even playing or players at all.

Luckily I don’t give a rats behind about winning AV.
But to tell you the absolute truth about AV, is that horde are not better, they are actual dogs.

If some rogue ninjacaps the final horde base tower alone, not the gy etc, 10 horde will have their reptile brains activate and spam chat RECALL NOW RECALL RECALL RECALL, ALLIANCE IN BASE!

Even back in the premade days when ally rushed drek, horde would be BRAINDEAD and rather than farm honor from rushing to cap all towers and kill all lieuts and get good honor per hour, they tried to turtle 40 man, lost the game and ended with no honor and cried about ally premades.

Horde turtle every single av match, without fail. It’s just boring.

The answer is that people who play av currently is just bonobo chimpanzees.

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Lol guys. Hes troll and very bad one…
If you are on this forum longer than 1 week you should know that

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Fine, i saved a draft of my critique of AV for just such an occasion.

AV Favors Alliance:

Bunkers > Towers - no debate, alliance can literally skip archers and go straight for the flag tag AND hit the archers through the tower wall with no retaliation, while horde has to kill basically all archers in the bunkers before they can safely tag the flag and have no way to cheese kill said archers.

Balinda > Galvangar - in terms of annoying abilities, namely sheep, arcane explosion and mass slow whereas Galv has cleave (capped at 3 targets), whirlwind, mortal strike and aoe fear. Galv can be completely shut down with a simple disarm, and his fear only lasts 6 seconds… oh and you can kite him endlessly because he has no ranged abilities LUL.

Alterac Ram > Frostwolf - Ram has Charge (which stuns) and Wolf has a mere Rend. pray who do you think gets more easily dazed off their mounts?

Icewing choke is easier to attack and hold for horde compared to Iceblood choke for alliance. but both are attackable and defensible nonetheless, it depends on your ability to hold the graveyard at the choke, for both sides.

Alliance base layout > Horde base layout

Alliance base:

Clumped up NPCs
A Bridge covered by 2 bunkers firing cancer arrows at whoever tries to cross
Trinket recall point right next to aid station flag, makes for easy ninja tag.
Horde cannot cheese/skip the marshals for easy Vanndar kill.
ONE backdoor that is hard to exploit, a lone alliance ranged class can hold this backdoor 1 vs 10-15 a simple blizzard aoe makes it impossible for any horde to get up.
Irondeep mine tucked away behind SP gy aka easily defended.
Commanders/Lieutenants clumped up near all the essential base exits for easy regen buff and easy choke defense.
The only downside to the alliance base is the fact that entrance to AV is tucked in the back of the base, meaning it takes them 10 seconds longer to get to the mid field when the game starts, this does, however, become an advantage in the late game when alliance should be defending their base (instead of just giving up)
Horde base:

NPCs all spread out, easy access to base essentials like Relief Hut.
No bridge.
Barracks that block west/east towers from firing at incoming alliance.
Walls with 3+ sections that can be ‘exploited’ by a simple jump (no wall climb needed, like with that ONE alliance backdoor) - not defendable.
Coldtooth mine outside of base, just behind tower point; hard to defend
Commanders/Lieutenants separated and alone just like all the other NPC’s, easily killed.
Drek’thar easily cheesed for quick kill, making towers even more useless to the horde.
Trinket recall point at least 90 yards away from relief hut flag, right in front of Drek’thar’s barracks, good luck getting to the relief hut flag with 30+ allies camping the location.
No geographic advantages at FW GY, as opposed to the hill/mountainside next to SP GY.
Horde’s only advantage is their cave entrance being next to their frontline which becomes a DISADVANTAGE late game when they need (and want to) defend base.

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