No man, it’s just you people fail to see the real issues are player performance issues. But carry on measuring map distances.
Right… and you measure player performance issues how exactly? That is SUBJECTIVE and INTANGIBLE not an OBJECTIVE or at least MEASUREABLE analysis so it falls under the realm of - hearsay and intangibles…
If its player performance issues why are WSG premades divided 50/50 between ally and horde, and both are doing freaking fine? How can Ally perform at the same level ANYWHERE else, but not in AV? See how absurd you sound?
A B S U R D!
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Bubble, one thing i agree that should be changed in AV is the dead end graveyards you have. This is bad for sure, cannot argue on it. Most of the other proposed things though don’t take into account various factors that shape the combat experience on that map.
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I have already detailed loads of player performance issues that I have observed, the major ones being alliance players avoiding pvp clashes, groups splitting, etc. The list is long. Alliance loses most pvp clashes for a reason, pvp clashes are the deciding factor on a non rush setting. If the alliance wiped the horde more often, outcomes would be vastly different. This happens, just not often enough because it’s rare to stack a large enough group of players that can wipe the hordes blobs and advance.
See, we are getting somewhere… 
I have said in this thread that I dont want to push for EVERYTHING I spoke about to be changed. I just want some obvious things both factions can agree on, to be tweaked as a starting point - and see where it goes… As I have said:
This is where i can argue man, the point is mostly the low overall morale prevents your faction from putting a real effort. And you see, forcing 50-50 while horde is freaking tryhard never give up /atm, i emphasize, ATM!/ and alliance is /afk, “you are all bad”, “uninstall”, “go back to retail” etc.
If you ask me, you must not be rewarded for doing half effort for equal outcome.
Well thats objectively false - In my experience alliance win middle initial clash arround 60% of the time taking a sample of my last 4 weeks of games, or over 50 games overall.
I also detailed in my initial post that most of my strats revolve arround WIPING the HORDE… Fights on equall footing are usually 50/50 split. Pushing for Gravyards is harder for alliance, not even objectives as a hole - but GRAVYARDS!
Thats not a true analysis of the situation. It has been 4 weeks since the changes. Within the first 2 weeks hordes figured out how to turtle us and increase their win% to over 40%… its 4 weeks now, and the alliance meta is - FIGHT as much as we can, because nothing else works! When I lead - that is what I strive for - and that is almost every game at this point… so I strongly dissagree that these intangibles consist of more than 5-10% of the faction’s loss rate…
I am also not saying - lets force a 50/50 split outcome… I am saying - Blizzard have the data of THOUSANDS of games and they can see the trends and where they land! I have 0 friends on ally side with over 30% winrate from the last 4 weeks, so I am assuming its close to 70% lossrate best case scenario. Lets make small tweaks (Like us spawning us at CAVE after we lose SH) and see where the win-loss graphs get over THOUSANDS of games… It WOUNT affect the horde / ally meta in ANY WAY, it will just mean that we dont spawn SOUTH of our objectives when you are pushing - NORTH at Stormpike for example! And lets be objective about the TANGIBLES and stop saying its just the intangibles that lose us the game - from personal experience - that becomes a case once we are choked at Stormpike for 20-25 minutes and 1/20 games before that!
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We obviously have different experiences then. I admit I don’t queue for AV often, but when I do out of the 70+ ongoing AVs I always get into ones that the alliance doesn’t fight. I end up with the most kills in the team most times with measly 6 or 7 kills so I’m left to wonder what the heck is everyone else doing all I see is people running away from fights even as the game is still fresh they split up and get picked one by one. How do you fix the alliance mentality even on an even map? Would that all the sudden make us brave and fearless ready to go head on the horde blob rather then just running away and dodging clashes? We need to win these clashes.
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40 man PREMADE will completely destroy this bg just as much as wsg is a no go zone for most ppl
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This is my experience too, in my eyes it has something to do with paladin cooldowns.
A short note about racials - alliance has more stuns /paladins/ and horde has more stun resist /orc racial/. Looks fair to me. This of course is a FACTION design, not an individual one. But we all know from various blizzard posts they dont balance 1v1, they focus on group combat. When was orc racial nerfed - when horde got paladins, not a coincidence if you ask me.
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Yep, I don’t think racials make that big of a difference in group pvp… I wholeheartedly agree that that isn’t something grandiouse that needs touching at all! 
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Why would it destroy it? I say it would save it.
People would finally get an easy accessible quality option.
No more afkers, no more bots, no more 51’s in team, no more 60% mounts, only people who want to play for win and for fun.
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player performance issues determine win or loose only in mirror or close to it conditions.
Classic pvp is ridiculously far from it, especially in AV.
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When I said player performance issues maybe I should have said players actually refusing to perform to make it more clear. Let me know if I need to explain in detail what this means.
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PREMADES WILL FIX IT? I dissagree… there will be only 10-15 groups of 40 man from the biggest pvp servers and the rest will be PUGS or 15-20 man casual parties. You have 0 cross-realm party options in classic, so it wount be what you remember from “before the changes”… DON’t believe you with your gear will get a spot in there either… it will be multiple times worse and the same people advocating for it will leave WOW with their tails behind their legs because they would have caused such an awful change… Imagine 10-15 teams DOMINATING AV and queing out if they face another premade… where will all the casuals play PVP then? If that happens I am defo leaving for good…
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The number of ‘‘minute’’ premades (pugs made through in-game-chat and discord) would be huge compared to the ranking premades.
And even if a ranking premade would end up fighting vs a casual pug, the chances would still look better than your average game today (where most of your team is afk, a bot pretending to play, lvl 51 or something like that questing, etc).
Since I havn’t joined a single WSG for 5 weeks and not played against a premade, I am not certain that you believe your own words…
Premades are just fine, so long as it’s only a system of Premade vs Premade.
I haven’t been in a WSG in days that wasn’t made up of an Alliance premade.
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Cause most ppl don’t join premades
Refusing to perform? You mean afkers or fishrrmans