If Alliance over extend, Horde will come and take IB GY back, and deadlock is in place, you can’t go back to SH GY before all Horde is there defending.
Last night it happend just like that, we grab IB GY and stood there defending, Horde came with 2 raids, one from the side and other from the cave and managed to wipe us out and retake GY few seconds after it turned to our side. The game went on for close to one hour, nobody could pass the icewing bunker passage because there were patrols all the time, Horde couldn’t take SP GY so they went backdoor and took last GY.
The important clue is the numbers. If two raids came to push you on IB GY, then what happened to to SH GY? Even if it was taken by Horde, wouldn’t the defenders would be massively outnumber by Allies pushing from SP?
You don’t agree, that winning fights regularly, wins AV (unlike WSG)? If you noticed, that you win fights but lose most games, then it’s weird and maybe I am wrong.
Btw, if IB GY, when you take it, can’t be reinforced (IWB choke) then why not go strait to FHR? It’s an empty base (unlike heavily NPC crowded Ally base).
Also, many people say that Horde patrol IWB to prevent Allies going south. That’s true, but ONLY when we are fighting there. When we get SP GY, no one ever patrols. Yes those who recall and defend on their way north, will attack Allies going south. But thats not patrolling, and those fights could take place anywhere souther IWB.
I can see that there is an issue with AV. It’s just I am not convinced by most arguments
Because you arrive faster after getting IB GY back than we can from ressing SP GY, and yes, SH GY was taken. If we took SF would be the same. And yes there are patrols for 1 hour if needed, and they aren’t players returning from recalls, because i have mind vision and can see. This is a problem of wrong behaviour that is caused by 5-man groups, it requires coordination only possible that way, and it’s ruining the game and should be rolled back, if it’s a pug it’s a pug, not half raid of 5-man groups highly trained. 3 banners in a row in the passage, that’s normal? Only saw that in premades!
Oh man if I could make a drawing of the “why do you lose SPGY” question, you would understand without even looking at it. We are being farmed for HKs at both SHGY and SPGY. When Horde have enough of it, they cap and move on. It’s that easy for Horde.
You are describing, but not explaining.
How Allies lose SP GY, while they rez 50 yards away, while Horde need to ride there all the way from SH GY?
In AB, to lose BS (while owning it) you have to be blind or facing a much stronger opponent.
I think Allies are just demoralized when they lose SH. I can see that clearly now with my Rogue, while sneaking around. People resurrected at SP, standing still. Also, there should be 40 people at SP, but I barely see 20-25.
They just stopped trying, and that’s sad.
Alliance loses SP because they don’t want to hold it. It’s also terrible GY to defend because horde can abuse mountains and alliance team are always melee heavy while horde usually has a lot more casters. Alliance doesn’t want to hold SP (or DB) because why would we want to hold it? We could stall the game to hours but why would anyone want to do it? You can’t win just by defending. The only way to try to win would be giving up SP and setting defense at DB while half of our team tries to pass south while horde spawns at SP. But it’s still something that would take too much time to be honor efficient. If AV is over 30 minutes long it’s already lost for alliance in terms of good honor gains and honor is the only reason most of the players are doing BGs. No one cares if they lose BG with good hph, the problem comes when you constantly lose BG with terrible honor and that’s how AV for alliance is with current horde tactic of defending with everything. Everyone who has decent rank (and that’s usually the best players with best gear) won’t contribute anything to defense and will just leech honor because that’s what they have to do with current honor system.
I understand.
Battlegrounds, shouldn’t be about honor per hour, but for competing and being rewarded for winning.
I’ve seen Russian AV teams doing that. In one case there were two groups of 20. One was defending, the other pushing south. It was the only game, where I got less than 1500 honor. I respect them for that.
I need to remind people again that the way all Alliance I’ve ever seen play is god awful, bum rushing IB gy and counting on the enemy team not removing insignias and letting you ressurrect people that die is straight up rude and disrespectful and the Horde no doubt enjoy torturing these players in 1 hour+ games.
About alleged map imbalances, IB graveyard is probably the most favorable spawn in the game but people are wrong about the horde cave.
When Alliance decide to bum rush IB gy there is absolutely no way to lose if you interrupt them and fight them, even if you do die you spawn right at the GY they are attacking with full HP and archers and ltnts helping you this time. And IB is an awesome place to be, you have high ground towards mid where they cannot get up and Archers and NPCs right there to keep you safe. You also make the run from IB to FW gy faster than from the Horde cave spawn to FW gy since you are unable to mount inside the cave. Why the Horde will recall once IB gy is taken anticipating swift defeat.
A consequence of this is that the Horde do not even want Snowfall GY, since having anyone dying in mid spawning at Snowfall gy out of the way of everything is bad. While IB is the best spawnpoint, it shouldn’t be relevant past 7 or so minutes into game. But Alliance would never even wait for the Horde to cap Snowfall before bumrushing IB and neither take the oppurtunity to cap it with few players allocated to contest it.
Since we still lack any offical respons to this issue yet, I guess they wont do anything just see how fast they implemented the changes to the “que” system.
The only way is i guess if Alliance just mass stop doing AV, something I doubt will happen since it is the only deacent way for randoms to get honor.
And if they really wanted a true vanilal exp of av we would ahve an olde rversion of Av in classic.
Same bullsh*t arguments over and over… even if you tryhard you cannot win. The map is fundamentally flawed and basically over as soon as you get SH. Shut up and bring up logic arguments and examples why it should be favored? Cause you very youtuber said so? I dont think so.
Look at it from Allience prospective horde are already at the ramp to spgy from the beginning before Allience even reach Belinda so horde can always get it first.
Yes our Gy is closer so with respawns we can take it now what ur respawning at ibgy which u are not at choked at all so u can attack spgy from both sides our respawns can get their faster and ur dead are respawning stopping our advancement.
If u fail at spgy u got two options and attack shgy from any direction because we can’t defend both one is taken the game is lost for allience since the respawn distance is huge with a tiny choke which is a big distance from flag when shgy is taken game is already lost if u win spgy it’s enivitable u will take shgy since Allience respawns are choked in and then defend and kill all Allience north of it so we respawn a mile from the fight.
If we manage to take ibgy we got a slim chance until horde go to defend they need smaller numbers since cave is so close with 20 respawns and the shgy needs small number to defend since it takes a minute for any Allience respawns to attack.
If we try to defend horde just backdoor
If horde lose to Allience u got outplayed with a severe map advantage
The cave and SP are on the same side of the map and you can choke allies by cutting this way off. For example on FW side the cave and respawn are on opposite sides of the map creating much less of a choke point (also its more of an open field there)
no idea why people are interested in winning an AV. I play alliance too and yes we lose like 80% of the time. but who cares just get max bonus honor, farm some kills and its maybe 1k less than horde gains for a 4min que instead of 40.
Maybe because the rep grind goes alot faster and that means alot of good gear faster…
If u dont know that i highly doubt you play two factions at “end game”
Back in those days horde was trying to win AV which can be done without capping SH and thereby ensuring an extended battle at SP delaying the inevitable horde win. Heck, in vanilla, horde would just camp SH without capping it and GY farm puny alliance while the rest of the team cleaned up in an empty DB.
These days, horde is not interested in winning. They are interested in punishing alliance for the long horde queues.
These queues have doubled since premade days. Horde was warned back then that their behaviour would see fewer alliance join AV and that their queue times would double.