SFGY (snowfall GY) is useless and has nothing to do with the new meta.
Honestly if you are stuck in your base with many Horde in the bridge, at some point, youâll loose anyway. The backdoor is just a way to end the game faster. I never saw Horde loosing when they already are on the bridge with full of Alliance that defend their base. Even if they remove all the backdoor, that will not change the winrate of Alterac Valley.
It changed the whole queue system and algorithm because your faction keep trying hard to make the 40-man premade in AV. Blizzard had to take counter measure for that.
Thereâs a new solution if you want to avoid joining existing game : tag as 5-man premade or small group. You can do that solo to : just group with a friend, and when you are able to enter into AV, your friend can drop the queue and you enter solo. Also, this problem is general and doesnât affect only Alliance, Horde can join existing game to and they often rage about that. But tell me how can you cry about joining existing game when you have less than 5mn queue time ? ^^
3/4mn queue time and you feel bad for that ? Lmao, I suggest you to make a Horde character and youâll uninstall the game instantly, the queue time is sometime about 1 hours. Itâs 12x more than you.
Itâs not a big change, they didnât modified terrain, map, class balance, or whatever. They just changed the algorithm of queue to prevent Alliance doing some shady stuff that is forbidden now. Now, everything is working like Vanilla, except thereâs 5-man premade that are allowed so people that want to play with friends are not screwed. No one can blame players to want to play with friends, and 5-man premade are balanced.
Horde cave location is here since Vanilla. Alterac map are public since Vanilla. What did you expect ? A Retail map for Classic ? Here we go the big change about balance and map 
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Sure, Horde is designed to win, Alliance is designed to lose. Iâm sure you donât believe yourself when you say that. Itâs a pure non-sense.
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Showing how much you know
CLAP TO NA ALLIANCE NOW EU now is your turn!
It just amuses me to see how much of a bias you have for your faction and how much of a fanatic you have become to keep enjoying your priveledge. You have simply become hooligans and every single thing you have written is wrong.
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I wasnât only talking about a scenario where 40 alliance players were trapped in their base. A lot of times, only 15-20 of them are defending the base and turtle the game while horde also does the same in relief hut. On this occasion, alliance loses because of the backdoor glitch that was certainly not intended to be there.
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It is a big change, and premades werenât âshady stuffâ. They just queued at the same time using a discord channel, thatâs all. And you are 100% wrong about vanilla and I guess you werenât there in vanilla. Because as an orc hunter back then, I saw a lot of 40-man premades (at least 4-5 premade games each day if not more) from the same server using AVQ addon, and it was mostly horde doing it in vanilla, because it was the less-populated faction. It wasnât changed, ever. So 30+ man AV premades existed in vanilla.
But they werenât so common, because: the faction imbalance wasnât so extreme that one faction was outnumbered 3 to 1. This is also the only reason AV premades were common a few weeks ago, because people back in vanilla didnât realize how OP horde racials were and factions were more balanced. This time around however, everyone knows how OP they are so all tryhard spergs rolled the same faction. So, there is absolutely nothing âshadyâ with premades other than to show how horrible faction balance is. -
Again, for your hooligan mind, if something is in hordeâs favor, it is fine. But as proven many times over every platform, horde can travel to any GY or tower in the current map layout 2 times faster than alliance. And the GYâs or starting cave isnât a dead end so they can get away from being camped a lot easier.
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Horde is designed to win in PvP, you canât even read a short sentence fully. Horde racials are better for pvp, pvp maps are better suited for horde. Alliance is designed to win in PvE. That is consciously done so by Blizzard I can guarantee you. Paladin buffs, dwarf priests, etc. give alliance a big edge in PvE, and guess what? 18 out of top 20 guilds on pve speed/progression are alliance guilds.
That is how they designed it to be and you 1.4k arena challengers from retail think that you are amazing pvpers when you win in AV because of broken racials+map advantages and 20 alliance bots that are there because of faction imbalances.
4 Likes
^^ I somewhat agree, and somewhat disagree. We can still win, and the hordes having advantages is fine⊠Just f*ckin allow us a pathway from Stormpike directly onto the road, without going through the flag⊠And possibly to climb up the hill from the timberfarm to the hill on top of SHGY⊠that will fix ALMOST EVERYTHING⊠buttt blizz will never do it. And thatâs okey, if they can please just BAN the BOTS and Leechers, and close up the ALLY BACKDOOR. One reason why if we are on equall footing south and north - ally more often looses is because hordes can backdoor and take one of the bunkers much quicker. This just allows quikcer pulls. Not ot mention that VANN doesnât have 2 pets beside him either.
So in essense if you wount change the map, then - BAN BOTTS / MAKE lvl 60 AV separate / Fix backdoor and see how it goes!? HOW IS THAT SO HARD!?
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Iâm not saying we canât win, Iâve won about 30%-40% of my games recently. But we need to overcome a huge disadvantage to win and therefore alliance will win less. Horde is designed to be the better pvp faction and will win more.
If there is anything (for instance alliance AV premades) that will make horde players constantly lose some games in PvP, Blizzard will change the game. Because thatâs how they want to keep the horde zerg paying their subs to the game.
That is simply a marketing decision for blizzard: they will make sure that horde wins in pvp to get their money and alliance wins in pve to get alliance playersâ money. If this cycle is disrupted, they will simply change the game, as they just did.
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Alliance AV Premade with zero bot, zero AFK, 100% mount, Discord, tons of healers, tons of Mage/Hunt/Warrior/Paladin/Priest.
Versus Horde Pugs without discord, bot, AFK, 60% mount, level 51, no Discord, frequently 0 healers because when this meta was a thing playing healer was not viable for ranking as Horde, random composition.
And the fun fact is, some premade was still losing in this condition ⊠I have no word to describe how this advantage was just interstellar.
Sure, everything was fine. If you can only win like that, it seem the problem is between the chair and the screen.
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I donât think that Horde players are against fixing back door or any other imbalance. Or even mirroring the terrain (maybe that would made the game boring). All they say is âwe donât think that its the reason for high winning ratesâ. Again and again I see this confusion. Just ask those that disagree with you and you will see.
Especially bots/afkers ban, is accepted by everyone. Everyone hates them. Even in real life.
For example, I personally donât consider back door, a big advantage. Whenever there was at least two ranged class Allies defending, we could not use that advantage. Thats two players. Iâve been always capturing bunkers with my Rogue (and other Rogues joined me often). On the other hand, in Classic, I rarely see Alliance Rogues, keeping us busy south.
What is actually more of a issue that boss summon bugs always on alliance side rare seen on horde side.
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Implying that out of ~7 mil active subscribers, 3.1 mil of which are alliance, that so it happens that alliance have absolute dogsh*t noobs only, who canât even win with âmassive advantagesâ over 51% of the time is a stupid of a statement as - âall hords are trolls playing wow from their basementsâ - and I believe is bringing 0 to the discussion 
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Just seen Alliance win an AV. Threy played well and didnât just run the predictable routes.
I agree that would be boring - mirroring the terrain. I also agree that most well-thinking people would be against AFKâers and BOTS in games - I mean thatâs just logical although even in this thread a couple of hordies have made a statement saying âDEAL WITH ITââŠ
Here is the thing though - the reason why I have done the deepdive up top is because it is not 1 small thing that is working against us - it is a bunch of them small things that add up quickly.
So let me put it this way. Lets say that the backdoor gives you a 1% advantage to win the game, beause you will on avarege 70% of games have dun baldaar bunkers down sooner than we will have frostwolf towers downâŠ
Lets say EVERY other thing I mentioned gives you a 1-2% advantage. Lets say we have some advantages as well, but on average its 10% easyer for horde to win if we put the BOTS AssideâŠ
Now if on average we have 3-4 more peeps AFK as alliance thats a DARING 10% advantage right there, as 4 people are 10% of the raid groupâŠ
I am not saying alliance doesnât have certain advantages in certain spots, I am just saying that at the moment - from my perspective we just have a bunch more of them on average and it starts with things we AGREE ON!
Because there are too many variables and I cannot say exactly if ALL that I complain about is fixed, whether or not some daring horde hurdles wount come up my idea is this - lets start with the big things that WE KNOW are hurdles and generate a huge % difference and then figure the small things if they are needed later. And lets agree on a W/L % which will satisfy both factions. I would say up to a ~ 45/55% win/l rate is healthy for a game even if alliance need to work a bit harder - no problem! And for love of christ lets stop assuming all Alliance are dog-sh*te players and put them on equall footing - we are all peopl i canât stand it. The easy BIG THINGS are which I believe we ALL AGREE ON are:
- BAN BOTS
- MAKE A SEPARATE LVL60 AV!
- Release Arathi Basin! (I think nobody is against that)
- An active reoccuring theme is to implement Lower Gains for people not actively in battles (fishers / bots / questers). So to be MORE concrete perhaps lower gains from leightaunants and higher from the PVP itself? Also Honor gains from submitting scarps / orbs etc for the whole team! Honor gains from killing wing commanders too - and from getting them to base! Honor gains from submitting scrapts to wing commanders as well! Also high honor gains from killing Druids / Shamans and higher honor gains for summoning the boss. This WILL FORCE these objectives and open up the map even MORE! It will also delegate more honor potential for the losing squad - so you never would feel like its just better to give up on either side, or âlet them pass and go kill a few leightaunantsâ. This would force more fights TOO btw! See with discussion we are making progress and I am agreeing with HORDIES on this! SO TY!
- Maybe fixing backdoor. I mean hordes are claiming its not the biggest problem - but it is an issue, so I donât think you will feel you are losing much ground by giving us at least that!
The things we dissagree on are:
- Should we allow premades back? - well I have changed my opinion - I think hordies are right - we shouldnât! We saw what happened with WSG and the new Min/MAX culture and meta! I think we also shouldnât do so for Arathi Basin either! I think we should be able to que with friends and have fun in BGâs in classic and let tryharders go vs tryharders in retail! (see I am giving up ground because of educated discussions!)
- Where the cave should be - to be honest I have no problem with hordes being aggressors. If we have to meet in the middle - we never would - and we will just PVE, so it doesnât bother me, although if the second to last change from the top is made - then thatâd be irrelvant as fighting would be better!
Things we should have discussion about and maybe wait for the things we agree on to be implemented - see where we are at - and then if its still not okey after 4-5 weeks - think about for the future:
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Map changes - lets implement the top things we AGREE On and then go for map changes if things donât balance out! And lets have discussions about it like we are doing to find the top changes that we agree one!
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Adding neutral NPCâs mid
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Adding more mechanics (summoning bots like it was in vanilla from the goblin quest)
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Gravyard farming / griefing changes - perhaps a safezone once you spawn which you need to be beyond before you are worth honor.
I think this is a fair summarry no? Let me know what you think!
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I agree on everything you said. Bravo for the constructive post.
We, the players, should only have one cause. To make this game fun for the majority of us. And a PvP game cannot be fun, if there is no competition. When things are too easy.
I am not optimistic about terrain changes though. I hope, at least, back door will be fixed.
It will not, because THEY HAVE THE EXACT SAME EXPLOIT. And they use it, on top of that. How many times i see Hut capped behind my back by walljumping ally exploiters. But you dont cry about this, do you?
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Ok Alliance am going to explain to you HOW TO WIN!
Iâve lost some games to alliance and this is how they do it.
Horde have a new breed playing AV now who believe killing Belinda is the first thing they should do after stopping alliance in mid/galv.
So when horde rush to Belinda, some alliance rush to Snowfall GY (Important part) - keep Snowfall GY , horde will trickle up in there 1âs and 2âs, kill them and keep it.
During this happening, Horde will have killed Belinda and trying to get SH GY now, the alliance there can stop them from getting it for as long as possible.
Now you have SF GY - you all spawn here - March down to IB GY, Tag it and leave 5-6 people keep it - the rest move down taking the towers and FW GY.
At this point, we had a group of 5 alliance from Sulfron recall and totally annihilate my horde team mates that was up north attacking the ally base.
Easy win for alliance because the horde arenât clever enough to Hold SF and SHGY at the start, they want Belinda dead first and even some of them run for bunkers before SH GY.
There ye go
Donât say am not good to yous
Enjoy your wins.
Remove all the so called horde advantages you want. The biggest problem of all will still remain: Alliance players donât care. They will rather play a 30 minute wsg game with a known afk bot in their team than report it afk. They will also, under no circumstance accept any suggestions from anyone on what to do.
Oh, and if you have fewer killing than them, you are trash. Killing blows is all that matters!
3 Likes
this guy got it right guys !
So many weirdos and entitled princesses in aliance ranks just âŠ,
Well I am winning more games through that strategy 
Main issue is the leechers and afkers on alliance side. Wow pvp is a numbers game, 30 vs 40 you will never win. That should be top prio for Bliz. Also bit weird but my q times went down from close to 50m to under 30m the last few days.
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