Your posts seems made by a 4y old, so the OP have a point.
Did a Pandaren took your spot in your guild Mop? Thy you have all the time mention it.
After 10 years you are still salty?
1 Like
You forgot to add “endgame raid content that is too challenging for people like I”. You can complain about the additions of retail all you like, but the content is far more challenging than classic. I raid classic, it’s a complete joke, I enjoy it anyway since I’m there with friends (including people who are far too low skilled to play retail with) and low effort raiding is a nice change of pace from retail. And yet you are incapable of clearing AQ40. Don’t complain when you’re literally incapable of clearing content easier than LFR.
Oh my, you must be such an awesome player you’d rather keep your identity hidden so the fangirls won’t catch you! The myth, the legend, the… absolute nobody.
Here’s the real reason, though after the quote above it’s quite obvious you’re just a troll:
Classic leveling was a trip back to the past of MMORPGs. Most of them zerg you through it now or have way too many story oriented quests that make you run from A to B and do nothing inbetween. Post leveling, doing the content is far easier than retail meaning it’s less effort so you can
- play with friends you can’t really do much with on retail due to skillgap
- do it without, you know, having to focus like it’s a job
Add to this that retail makes all your progress completely pointless a few months later due to content patches upping the item level by so much that anything you earned before is useless. This may change with the removal of Titanforging, but it was mostly there prior to Titanforging as well just to a lesser extent.
Classic on the other hand has your progress remain relevant throughout the entire game. You may be able to do a little less with it (unless you’re on a PvP server, have way too much time on your hands and enjoy being a griefer), but at least it’s not turned irrelevant a few months later, forcing you to do the same grind in mostly the same places for the same items all over again.
Your progress in classic is almost irrelevant on a pve server.
Anyone who enjoys the world PvP in classic has never experienced being good at a game where skill - not gear and outnumbering - is the deciding factor, so they do it to feel good about themselves. Or they’re just a psychopath that enjoys griefing people.
The vast majority of people do not progress in classic to become either of the above, even those on PvP servers.
MMORPG’s are obviously not only about the skill of a player because there are other factors playing an important role, otherwise it would not be e real MMORPG. In MMORPG’s players get better gear to get an advantage, gear should not be just cosmetic. Gear is only one factor that can create some imbalance but there are even more (classes/specc/profession/race/buffs/consumables).
I am fully aware that pvp isn’t only about skill… sometimes i beat other players with absolutely 0 skill involved. My char is just too powerful for them → That’s the MMORPG aspect, i invested time and thoughts into my character to become that powerful. For some fights i don’t need to be skilled to win but if a player is also skilled he can even take much bigger/harder fights. The fun part comes when you can start to fight against multiple players at once and still come out on top. There is nothing to win in open world pvp → It’s just casual fun pvp and just because i enjoy it doesn’t make me bad at other competitive games. If i would really care about a competitive pvp experience i would certainly not play wow xD
PvE players are finished with the game once they have the gear (and they call it “griefing” when they get attacked) - PvP players can finally start playing the game once they have the gear.
It makes me so happy that AQ is out now because so many mages are fire specced now and that makes them a lot more vulnerable in open world pvp. Imagine running around on a pvp server with a pve specc 
Ever heard of Battlegrounds?
That’s exactly why I play on a PvE server in the first place
And what you get from pvp, zero, nada, niente.
So unless you play games where there is actuall player looting (Aka I kill you and I can loot you) or territorial warfare (Aka I can take control of your city plus npc and services) pvp has no reason to exist
I don’t need to get a virtual item as a reward for pvp to have a reason for pvp.
When was the last thing you did something for fun?
The reason i want to have a powerful/geared character is so i can have more fun getting involved in open world action.
Yesterday i saw an old rival (Orc warrior - we had already a lot of fights in the open world) standing around at the chapel in the eastern plague lands. He already had me in his target as i saw him and as i went in his direction he started to run away. Since i can’t really dismount him i have to follow him until he gets off his mount. So i followed him all the way to Undercity and there he got dismounted in the elevator. I killed him in the middle of Undercity with plenty of guards on me and then i bubbled/hearthstoned out.
Did i waste like 15mins just for 200 honor points? Man i am such a bad min-maxer lolol but to me this was every minute worth it.
1 Like
And why can’t a person be allowed to enjoy gear progression in PvE the same way?
Ofc people are “allowed” to do whatever they want in this game with only a few exceptions (ToS).
If someone plays wow just for fishing, like role playing a fisherman then that person is allowed to do that. The point is why would someone do that?
So in that same sense pve players are allowed to collect items in raids - but why?
Would you also raid if there wasn’t any loot dropping? How do you feel after a raid night without getting loot? Do you enjoy doing this content over and over or do you enjoy getting shiny pixels? 
I did like 10 MC runs in a row without getting anything and i healed even tough i don’t enjoy it. The social aspect with the guild is the only positive part about it. Does this makes it worth or is that the real content? Then items aren’t really needed… i only did it because i wanted one single item that did not drop ^^
But i can keep doing open world bullsh$it without getting loot all the time…
1 Like
Let me put it this way - do you think PvE players would enjoy it just as much if there simply were vendors outside raid portals who sold all the raid loot from bosses for a few gold a piece?
If that is your definition of fun you are the example of why wow was/is labelled as the carebear pvp game in the Mmo community
Wait you’re wondering why people want shiny pixels but at the same time you say you did 10 MC runs that you didn’t enjoy because you wanted one single cluster of shiny pixels from it? And sure shiny pixers might not be “needed” for much but for example it is quite nice to be able to PvP against other players that do posses those shiny pixels and not be at a massive disadvantage bacause you only have access to non shiny pixels. Similar deal with trying to do higher damage than others during raids. Can’t do it without pixels of sufficient shine.
okay then - I don’t treat MMORPG’s as eSport and i think it’s silly if some people want to make an eSport out of MMORPG’s. It’s a role playing game man…
The difference is: Raiding to get gear to become a better raider vs Raiding to get gear to become better at other content than raiding.
This “Raiding to get gear to become a better raider” makes some sense if there is new/more difficult content coming and the goal is to clear the final/most difficult raid boss. In this case it would be preparation for the next raid tier. But once KTZ is down and Naxx is on farm, isn’t then the game basically over? Like how long would you farm Naxx to complete your gear and for what reason if there is no new raid content coming? TBC would just ruin the value of your character/items?
Ultima online is not an esport or dark age of Camelot, albion and all the other sandbox mmorpg.
Just that you think that player loot must be a esport element show how litle you know of mmorpg.
Well luckly you can do both at the same time. Raid to get better gear for raids and better gear for PvP. Heck I’m sure there’s people that want gear for the cosmetics alone. And if you want to clear the raid faster than before you need better gear so for some raid goals better gear is still needed.
The issues with the last raid tier are the same as it is in every single expansion. Most of the gear you get will be replaced come next expansion. But then again you can say that about all raids. Why even raid AQ if most of the items are going to be useless in TBC?
I never raided in other expansions since the pvp system got changed in TBC and i’ve quit retail around cata/panda i don’t remember exactly.
In classic the pvp system is just a bit absurd and i don’t really want to grind to rank14. Raiding a few hours per week is more realistic for me than getting rank14 ^^
That sounds pretty bad to be honest. Blizzard has to pump out new content (which isn’t really new content, it just looks different but players basically do the same thing as before) so people keep paying/playing. Just make items loose value so new ones can get farmed - making a repeatable cycle out of it… It’s kinda abusive.
Because the gear is needed to be able to clear Naxx?
Otherwise i don’t know and maybe some peole have good answers…?
I’m not talking about ranking which is kind of pointless right now. Just PvP in general. Can’t really expect to do well in BGs or wPvP with dungeon greens and blues while other people are wearing AQ gear. Especially if you’re something like a warrior.
I don’t know why it would be “abusive”. Blizzard are apparently giving people what they want even if you don’t understand why.
But why would you need to clear Naxx? The gear will lose a lot of it’s value in TBC and there isn’t much achievement in clearing content that’s been cleared 15 years ago.
Those Are not expansions of wow this are all mmorpg with real pvp.