It’s because that wall of text you wrote is full of incorrect assumptions and conclusions. You are selling your opinion as a fact without any facts to back it up.
1 Like
I doubt you even read it or you read it biased from the beginning because otherwise you’d have more nuanced and interesting things to respond to it with. Instead, you’ve come with emotional BS.
Especially considering you had to look 13 responses in to a short off hand comment to some1 else’s reply I made to actually have something to come back at me with rather than any point made in the OP.
Just saying my points are void is not a valid argument. You have to explain why they are so that I can then respond to it.
But before you make me have to go through the effort of responding to any points you might make, make sure you’ve read the previous replies to this thread to see if I’ve already answered it so I don’t have to repeat myself. If you make a point I’ve already countered, I will just say so, I’m not typing it all out again, I’ll be here all day and I’ve got some work to do.
2 Likes
Worst of all I can’t use it on a Blood Elf so it’s utterly worthless to me.
That was the drop that made the bucket spill. You are a vocal minority using absurd arguments to justify your opinion, I don’t need to anything. I can just say you are wrong because you are wrong. I am going to use the boost, most of my guildies are going to use the boost, a lot of my friends are going to use the boost and if you don’t want to use it thats fine but I don’t care. You have clueless level 60 players that will go to tbc and you will have bots farming gold with or without the boost. If you can’t pay for the boost you will just have to level yourself, will you be behind yes, is that a problem no, its the same as in 2007, except you didn’t have the option of a boost at all. I’m not sure what kinda guild you’re in but I haven’t come across guild forcing people to level transmuters, might just be me though it seems like a fairy tale argument. It doesn’t de-legimitise anything I have achieved so far, I got what I wanted to reach in vanilla and I’m not going to look down on anyone for buying a boost. If he sucks he wont be in the raidgroup but hey that goes for people who levelled to 60 themselves, and they have proven is they can click the same 3 buttons thousands of times. You act like your life is in danger or something, but remember it’s just a game. And this game has millions of players and all of them just want to enjoy it, and you are trying to hold a portion of those players back because you somehow feel threatened by something that in the end is none of your business.
4 Likes
maybe but evidence? Even if I am, being a majority doesn’t always make you in the right. The masses can often be fooled into stuff that isn’t good for them. That’s how you get mob mentality. At the end of the day, blizzard needs to be responsible and make decisions for the health of the game. The boost is no such decision. It is financial and nothing more. They want to captivate on lazy players not so that more people can have fun but so that they get more short-term subs and boost purchases.
adding an adjective in there to make your subjective opinion seem definitive
You do if you’re trying to actually make a good argument
guess that means it’s good then boys. Nothing more to be discussed, the boost is good for blobbers so it’s perfect.
and how is that fair? Those who are better off IRL get an advantage in game and it isn’t through behaviour that is against the ToS thus not even a risk of being banned? The amazing thing about old wow was that no matter who you were in real life, you were on an equal playing field within Azeroth. This has been taken away now in this part of the game.
maybe not forced but heavily pressured too. Sometimes it may be self inflicted, but that isn’t the players fault to feel pressured to do unreasonable things to gain an advantage, blizzard should design the game to some degree knowing that what they add will make players feel compelled to do it if it gives them some sort of edge over other players.
great, that’s you, but what about others that see it differently?
I have done no such thing. I’m passionate about the topic because I care a lot about game and don’t want it to become retail lite. Also it’s easy for you to say that I’m overreacting and your being normal when blizzard is putting what you want in the game but I bet if they announced that they were removing the boost from tbc, you and your camp would be fuming.
Have you ever considered that many player’s experiences are being negatively impacted by changing the game to suit other players? You talk about those who want the boost want to be able to enjoy the game, well those of us who don’t want the boost in the game want to be able to enjoy the game as well. It is so easy to flip your argument the other way.
4 Likes
It’s not. It really isn’t bad. Some people will buy the boost for an alt, for others it will be their first character. No biggie really. Its a one time thing! It’s restricted to classic races only. It’s not a major change but you’re afraid of it.
It’s just a pathological fear of change. You will get over it once the game takes its normal course and you will see it’s nothing. It’s just a bunch of normal dudes playing the game like you. It will not impact you negatively.
One time only!
I thought we were having a serious conversation. Not the same thing for obvious reasons. If you can’t understand that, I can’t help you.
You still don’t understand that people don’t want to level in Vanilla. And no, prepatch will not be enough for many people to reach 58.
Vanilla leveling may be part of the TBC but considering it’s an old game and people have done this many times, it’s okay for them to skip, yes. It’s nothing new or fascinating.
The problem is people who actually have time for vanilla leveling nowadays are a minority not a majority.
I’m not going to reply to such a comment.
Can all of you, you know, play the game? The sky isn’t falling, what you’ve achived can’t be devalued as it has no value to anyone but yourself. New players who boost might learn to play and fit in or they might quit. Overall it will change nothing.
1 Like
Fitting guild name
2 Likes
At the end of the day bots will bot regardless of the boost so not adding boosts solely for that reason is silly to me.
I understand the waryness but comparing it to retail just doesn’t work as Retail has no limit inplace where as Classic will have 1 per account which you could argue isn’t hard to work around but not everyone juggles 12 accounts infact the vast majority of players use 1 account maybe 2 at most so it just doesn’t apply like it does in retail imo.
I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again if you truely want to remove bots quickly and effectively you need to just add WoW tokens for gold because that is majority of the market and in retails case it actually removed A LOT of the bots from the game until selling raids became a thing then they came crawling back but thats a point for a different discussion.
The point that it de-legitimises other’s achievements is a good point but no one looks at a fresh 60 and thinks Wow look at this amazing player because its not an achievement to do quests/dungeons to hit max level but looking at someone in Tier 2 or tier 3 is something you’d think that.
In the case of the boost it takes you to level 58 which is the bare minimum to enter Outland so no one is going to give a damn about what anyone has gear wise when most items will be useless come the mid 60s and from memory only naxx gear actually midly holds up in 70 content so being 58 or even 60 means nothing come TBC.
The need to cling to the Classic experience is something I do understand but sadly most players aren’t interested in 2-3 months of questing/dungeons just to get to a stage where they can start new content and Blizzard both want to please its playerbase and make money so the idea of a boost is a nobrainer to be honest.
You reference people paying for gold boosts in dungeons but that wasn’t apart of the classic experience but it was accepted by the vast majority of the classic players because it was easier than questing solo so the players who cling to the idea of a Classic experience are clearly more than happy to accept things that benefit them and hilariously most of the ZG boost runs were/are conducted by bots and its only a rare few that I’ve come across that aren’t bots.
Fresh server’s aren’t the answer quite frankly because your basically erasing years of work/effort that players have put in just so you can sleep easy knowing people can’t boost to a level that effects nothing.
The idea of that the 58-70 area will be full of clueless players is just absolute nonsense because Classic players are just elitists and the moment they spot someone not pulling their weight or clearly not understanding their class they will be removed from w/e content they are doing.
I’ve boosted characters on retail which arguably has far more complex rotations than what classic/TBC has and by the time I did the last 10 levels I already had a good grasp of the class I had boosted so I don’t believe in that arguement that by the time the boosted 58s hit 70 they will be clueless because classic/tbc rotations are incredibly basic compared to retail ones in terms of what you need to understand and with all of the thousands of guides/youtube videos showing the perfect talent set and rotation to use so again there really isn’t anyway to find someone who is clueless at their class by 70.
Overall I’d just say your exaggerating what the boosts will actually do and using purely negative points to force an opinion that boosts are all bad with no good which is not only incorrect but just petty and shows your ignorance when it comes to having a discussion.
5 Likes
so because something is already bad, we should just say f*ck it and make it worse / easier for the wrong doers to do their wrongs more?
I think having the limit makes it even worse because it makes the cost to be the most efficient and optimal you can be higher. At least if there’s no limit per account I can cash out less for the same result. (not that I’d be ok with it then either)
You’re literally proving what I’ve been saying to all these others. If you follow the logic that the boost does, it leads to needing wow tokens and other services. And we end up at a retail like game. Besides, the token did not stop botting, do you not know about the infamous boomkin bots running laps in old zones in retail?
what you’re on about I literally address in the paragraph for that point
who says most? Who??? Everyone seemed fine with it for classic and it was a colossal success. I would argue there is more precedent that people don’t mind levelling vs they do.
Also, sometimes, part of RPGs are less than ideal grinds but without them, you’d get bored and quit. Levelling is just one of these grinds. TBC end game has many more that are arguably worse than it and if they can’t deal with that grind then they won’t be able to deal with those grinds at the end game.
Neither the blizzard boost or player-driven dungeon boosts are good but at least 1 is a player behaviour and the other is a game feature. Player behaviours can be controlled and tamed. But the service is pandora’s box, once it’s in, the damage is done. I explain further how dungeon carries are better for the game than the blizzard boost in one of my points
I never said anything about erasing. The NEW servers have boosts and the OLD ones don’t but both still exist and both go on to TBC content? what’s so hard to understand?
name calling tactic and also broad generalising statements don’t make good arguments
well maybe you’re are just better player than others. But it was well documented back in MoP when the boost was introduced that things like flex and LFR were nearly impossible because the amount of completely clueless players rocking in with their shiny new boosts. I understand MoP had more complex classes than tbc but tbc still has a lot of buttons (altho most niece) that can confuse new players. The boost is defended as being good for new players so that’s why I talk about boosts in regards to new players.
‘‘I disagree with you so you’re exaggerating’’
The whole fear tangent is pure speculation and you have no idea why I feel the way that I do and you’re simply stating that assumption as fact to discredit the points of your opposition in one broad conclusive statement.
As for whether it is bad or isn’t bad, it’s such a bad debating point we should just leave it because just saying it is that bad or it isn’t that bad without making actual points is pointless and endless.
When you talk about most players, do most players do more than 1 or 2 max levels? I’d say most don’t but ofc we’d need some statistics for that.
We are, and I’m being serious. I’m using sarcasm to highlight the flaw in your argument. If you can’t understand that, I can’t help you
SOME
We have no idea how long the prepatch will be so you can’t say it won’t be enough unless you’re just accepting that any amount of time isn’t enough which just means you’re being stubborn so you can get your way and have the boost.
It’s all old content, that’s kind of the point of classic realms?
evidence where?
you just did
3 Likes
I say your exaggerating because your taking purely negative points and refusing to see any positive aspect no matter how minor it could be.
At the end of the day your gonna sit there stressing about something that won’t even effect you because I would assume you are in a guild that raids and does content so boosted players won’t be an issue to you in the slightest.
I understand the forums is a place for a discussion but your not looking for one your just looking for people who also will blindly believe that the bots are somehow waiting in the corner until TBC/boosting releases and then all hell is gonna break loose when that simply just isn’t the case.
Sure bots will boost and sure bad players will boost and be clueless but at the end of the day your still gonna hit 70 and raid log as soon as you get chance to so if this is really what you want to spend your time/effort trying to force down people’s throats you can go ahead because its clear to me that you have no room for even remotely having your opinion changed and are more interested in preaching it at us to force a reality that isn’t there.
4 Likes
I have done no such thing. Someone else said this too and it shows you haven’t read the whole thread. Me and someone else were having a back and fourth and they listed the positives they saw and then I threw back my counter to those points until either they or I couldn’t think of a counter to what the other had said and that point would concede. No one thus far has managed to provide a positive that doesn’t have a flaw I have been able to identify. I can’t see what doesn’t exist.
It does effect me and everybody else who plays for reasons I’ve listed extensively throughout this thread in both the OP and replies to others. If you must know, I used to be in a raiding guild up until just before AQ gates opened then I quit due to IRL stuff and haven’t returned since due to feeling out of the gearing loop.
Actually, I am, and have been having one with people on this thread all day. I think it is you that is being rubbed the wrong way by me even opening this dialogue on the forums.
I’ve done no such thing, you just don’t like my opinion so now YOU exaggerate what I’ve done to make me appear unreasonable when in fact I’m being perfectly reasonable and given people extensive and thought out responses.
Your arguments sound more like emotionally charged attacks of my character and manner of debate rather than my points.
All that crap you mention, the bots the riuned economy, the dungeon boosting, clueless players, its all in the classic atm, boosting chars dosent change anything.
Yes i play retail because classic is crap, its wow beta, its not ready, its booring world of oomcraft, there is nothing to do outside the raid. Classic servers are totally pointless imho, but did you ever seen me crying about it. I dont like it and i dont play it thats it.
And since you brought the family inside the discussion i say that you had your mommys t*tty in your mouth when i was playing wow. I have good job, nice family and good income so i dont even need credit card.
Most people will main one character and probably have an alt or more. TBC isn’t very alt friendly, not from a PvE perspective anyway.
That is from my experience at least. Doesn’t make it a rule.
As far as I know prepatches are usually around 4 weeks. For weekend players and average folks with jobs is not enough to level to 58 imo.
I might be wrong about the prepatch ofc, we don’t have the details yet.
And yes, some folks will not want to go through Vanilla content. Again, you think that’s wrong I think it’s fine. Can’t change your opinion and you can’t change mine.
Every expansion released is new content. Yes TBC is an old expansion but right now it’s the newest Classic so I counted it as new. That’s what I meant.
Blizzard gives everyone a chance to catch up whenever a new expansion is released. That’s not what takes retail down.
Just my experience and discussing with people. People have 0 interest in spending months leveling when they could do something else that is more entertaining, like raids and PvP.
They don’t consider leveling an experience that is worth their time anymore, fact proven by the many boosts happening in Classic.
Honestly don’t understand how you can get so worked up about something that doesn’t affect you in the slightest way. A lot of people like the service and will use it so all the drama is for nill
1 Like
it’s a discussion, not drama. This is what forums are for
I agree with that so my point was that fact makes the fact that it’s only 1 boost more significant because most people would probably only level once or twice anyway so by boosting once, most people will probably never quest, especially those who already played classic to 60 as they probs already have 1 or 2 chars so now having a third will really keep most satisfied.
I’d say it’s fair to make an educated guess of how long the pre-patch will be based on how long previous pre patches have been. 4 weeks to me sounds plenty of time to get to 60 with the tbc levelling changes to EK and Kalimdor. I am a student on a BTEC course and completing my assignments can take the majority of my week away but I still find time to play casually. You can’t please everyone, but I think even most casuals could get 58 in that time.
I agree with this, we won’t change each others minds by debating this sub topic.
only in newer xpacs. They didn’t do this at the launches of the early xpacs, not at all other than the changes that, according to folks in ur camp, aren’t enough for casuals to catch up such as the tbc xp increases for vanilla zones or the heirlooms in wotlk.
I’d say it is ONE of the million tiny cuts that takes retail down. But just because I won’t die from 1 cut doesn’t mean I want to get cut
Again, I’d say some. I’ve never bought a boost in classic and have been levelling many chars recently the proper way. Even introduced my sister to the game and she tanked wailing caverns for the first time as a druid. I don’t like anecdotal examples but I’m using one to show how your anecdotal example can easily be countered with one that proves a different thing. Point is, if some like it and some don’t, it means that it’s neutral overall unless u have evidence to show no1 does it. I’d say most levelled legitimately but just back at launch, not now, which isn’t a problem imo.
1 Like
I don’t see that as an issue tbh. I mean leveling in Vanilla is fun a few times then it becomes a chore. The questing is, to me at least, annoying, for many reasons that I’m not going to list here.
Questing in Outland is superior in many ways and people who come for TBC will level once or twice and be done with it.
Actually questing in general gets old fast for many people. I could do Karazhan 1 mil times ( I do it almost weekly on retail for mogs and I’m still not bored of it) but questing? Meh.
I wanna test this honestly. I’ll give it a try in prepatch. 30% less exp still seems like a long journey to 58.
I guess for you it’s a cut for others it’s a blessing. Many Classic players will use the boost even though they already have at least one lvl 60 ready to go.
You’re right, you can’t please everyone. So who do we please then?
I mean, I dunno what to tell u mate, that’s just ur opinion. There’s not much I can say
I hate some of the zones in outland like blade’s edge but again these are all just opinions, they are pointless discussing.
You keep saying this but with no evidence. Many is very vague word to use as well.
30% in almost anything is quite a big deal. Imagine if ur abilities did 30% more damage, or raids dropped 30% more loot or riding skill costed 30% less gold etc… 30% is big when it adds up.
I’d say the classic audience. Basically retail and classic are meant to appease 2 very different crowds so I say design one completely old fashioned and the other very modern. Therefore, the level boost is a very modern concept so leave that in retail and keep it out of the classic game.
It’s just a flat negative for the game, if they don’t really want to level then I really don’t think Classic series is for them. I think the only reason they’re doing the boost is a result of seeing how many people in classic WoW are actually BUYING boosts through dungeons 10-60 as is, or else they likely would’ve never done it.
2 Likes
Questing is, by far, my favourite non-RP activity in the game, closely followed by fishing.
2 Likes