World PvP Problems

PVP War Mode and World PvP
41

Thats the problem. Your logic, like your existence, is a accident. Explain us how it was possible?
Where is the logic in 5 ally vs 1 horde? Where is the logic in going a full party go kill a horde player with 30% hp while he fights a elite? Where is the logic to keep WM on just for AOO then disable it? Where is the logic to camp a player with a party and then run like hell when that player brings his friends?
Cant you see that Blizzard encourages “a#shole” behaviour and you with your pathetic alliance comply and do your best to achieve this?
When your brain will understand the concept of “ethics” , “morale” , “honor”, “fairness”, etc…then we can talk. Untill then, any discussion with a coward noob that runs away from a 1 v 1 fight , is useless.

42

What we have here is, a difference of opinion. That should not be a personal insult to you, yet you seem to take it that way and respond emotionally. I laid out my points very logically. You claimed they were stupid, quote one of my points and state why it is stupid.

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43

PTSD, and i think comparing it to a video game is pretty inappropriate. there are 2 types of wpvp:

  1. unequal lvl combat (lvl 60 vs lvl 100, lvl 101 vs lvl 120)
  2. equal lvl combat (lvl 60 vs lvl 60, lvl 120 vs lvl 120)

option 2 rarely happens outside of 120 v 120. it is option 1 that happens more often than not: 120’s camping legion invasion wq’s, or opposite faction quest hubs in Vanilla - MoP content. there is NO chance that the low level player has a chance to win against a 120. but the buff of 10%-30% is just worth it too much. if you have to dodge idiots or not is a toss of the dice. if you’re lucky, you wont, and you can lvl faster. other times its bad luck you have to put up with them.

people want to have fun playing the game, not have some clown constantly harass them for cheap thrills. most people under 120 most likely have WM on for the perks. nothing more. the chance of “fair” wpvp below 120 is very small and not worth turning on WM for, so its not on for the wpvp. again, its on for the perks. if you have issues with WM once you’re 120? then you have to choose to have it on or not.

and this is why your contribution to the discussion gets us nowhere. as long as you think one faction is being favored over another, nothing will be fixed. i have played as both horde and alliance, and i see the same thing happening on both sides.

  • both factions have idiot gankers.
  • both factions have large groups chasing tiny groups or players on their own.
  • both factions face phasing issues periodically.
  • both factions have times where you’re basically on your own against an army.

something is wrong with the tech being used. it is not ready in its current state, and to say its purposely favoring one faction or the other shows that you have not played both factions to know the truth.

while maybe there may be a great conspiracy to protect alliance (or horde), it would have to be so minuscule to not be noticed by anyone other than the people who programmed in that protection.
eg. for every 100 alliance players about to be killed in wpvp, only 98 will get killed, and the the other 2 will get phased to safety, whereas for every 100 horde players about to be killed in wpvp, all 100 will get killed.

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46

We could in this ‘what is wpvp’ debate boil it very very simple down.

Pvp in it self is player vs player - it doesn’t explain how many vs how many, where it should be or the rules that applies to it.

Battle grounds are little sports arenas, here there is an objective and death for the opsing team is an outcome if they want to win ot have the upper hand.
You lvl determinds who you will battle against. :basketball_man:

Arenas are a pure and simple death match :slight_smile: :skull:

World Player Vs Player is as the name say it - players vs players in the world. In the world we have different objectives like in the battle grounds, the difference is the lvl difference between players.

Since we can return to previous places, we can also battle against any players at those objectives.
The rules at these objectives are often simple “kill a number of x” or “make the flag change colour” - something like that.
If another player is flagged they can intervene, if not they can stay and watch without being a problem to the flagged. :ambulance:

And then we have War Mode - War Mode is the new pvp-servers.
War Mode is Player Vs Player all the time, no objectives to take and no rules regarding the lvl you have, the lvl the opponent have or the number you or they are against. :muscle:

There, that was the simple version of the :slight_smile:

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47

Now we can talk about the subject that seem to be what fills the pvp forum the most:

  • What to do, when you find yourself in a situation where people wants to pvp and you dont - but you are both flagged!

A couple of days ago someone in the pvp section was angry that hordes keeps entering Goldshire and no one does anything.

Other people are angry that they get attacked when they pick flowers, because “they didn’t do anything”

Or why doesn’t horde/alliance want to 1V1.

One even demanded 1V1 and a dishonour system if you entervened, and still claimed 5V1 was true Wpvp, because of old Vanilla videos.

I will be so bold to claim this:

“There is no true way to pvp”

The difference is the stages these incidents happen at.

  • When I did BG’s I always protected the objective, that meaned I rarely was at the front to a huge annoyance to the rest of my team.
    I go flamed, but I was the last stance when they got wiped and was (imo) really good at defending <- I think that is pvp, but often half f the team didn’t.

  • When I have WM on, I attack everyone regardles of their lvl or gear.
    I am pretty when I play so I myself don’t care anyway.
    One on the pvp forum didn’t wanted to play against people who was even worse them him, badly geared and below lvl <- that is pvp to him, but it sucks to be me, because that means he won’t fight against me.

  • And then we have those who wants 1V1… Because of what?
    The same honour code their chars are under?
    No, because it is more fun to defend yourself against one, than two - we all know that.
    But this subject often get camuflaged behind “X faction has no honour and are cowards and can’t fight alone”

    But you don’t fight alone in BG’s or Arenas, and in WPvP you often ask for help, just in case someone from the other faction is lurking around.

When I was at the lvl on my human that made me enter Redrigde, I ended up in the familiar situation Graveyard Ganking by a lvl 120 :smiley:
Pretty awesome right :wink:
At first I tried to walk around normally “it’s just a phase this poor orc is going through” - it wasn’t, at the time he had placed himself where he could shoot me and newcomers I cried in guild chat “help”… And they did :smiley:

Free to lvl - and that was pvp too.
I was the looser, lvl 120 was the winner and my guildies was the better ones :slight_smile:

  • I know a lot you on this forum like to draw parallells to wars in the real world, but I am going to be awfullly honest right now:

    Even in real life, there is NO honour in a war.
    No sides show sportsmanship and no side are gentlemens.

So how to apply this to a game?
You can’t, it doesn’t exist!

It doesn’t mean it is impossible, if everyone agrees to a set of unscripted rules, then they will apply eventually.
Just remember there will allways be one who likes to be provocatiove and break those rules for fun.

As a conclusion for this:

There is no definition for real world pvp or how a real world pvp'er should behave.
You can play with the tool given or try to change the unscripted rules or just leave.
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48

I’m sorry for the walls of text… I still can’t seem to work out how to make fancy post like most you can :sob:

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49

Your wall of text was a good read, very well laid out and 100% logical!

Three different WPvP viewpoints:

  1. Anything goes.
  2. Honor and ethics.
  3. Don’t care.

They are all correct, because WPvP is a system with no limits on PvP behaviour imposed by Blizz. What an individual player considers a behaviour issue just depends on viewpoint.

Me and Arkamedix for example don’t see eye to eye… he’s focused on ethics, I’m focused on anything goes. It’s an unwinable argument, because we are both correct, and why back down. I don’t share his point of view, but I accept that all three of the above viewpoints are WPvP - because they are all possible within no limits.

This debate has been on the go from the start of WoW, and no doubt games before WoW, and will continue as long as there is WPvP without limits. I hope so, because if that was to change, limits on WPvP, we’d lose something great: choice in how we WPvP.

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50

Stop arguing with Vaeyn. He is an underachiever that gets kicks when he 10v1 and then comes to forums saying PvP is balanced.

It’s literally in this trash’s interest to keep the status quo so he can continue fishing in muddy waters. That’s why he keeps coming to defend this shytestorm in every thread.

51

We just have different points of view. They are both correct within no limits WPvP. Up to the player to WM on or off. If WM on, accept consequences of no limits.

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52

Lol this guy.

Thick as momma’s homemade jam. :joy:

53

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion :+1:

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54

Hey, we can’t all be underachievers and defend that one thing that the management made sure we are good at, eh?

55

Achievement depends on your goal. My goal is to have fun. I am achieving that very well thx :slight_smile:

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56

Lol this guy 🤦

57

I agree with Vaeyn. Not everyone needs the hand-holding of structured play.

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58

Oh wait? Structured play involving incentives in the form of better loot like alliance has?

Or should we talk about how the mere existence of this incentive is hand holding as per the dictionary?

Like that bro?

59

So why are people confusing Warmode and PvP mode? Warmode turns on PvP but PvP does not turn on Warmode.

60

I don’t think you understand the concept of “structured play”.

“Structured play is any type of activity that has a set of rules or instructions with a goal.”

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61

Why always i must give you answers to your arguments? Why dont you answer to my arguments first and admitt it. So lets repeat, you answer first, admitt it, and then i answer to your “logical arguments” :

Why you avoid answering questions that you dislike and instead to answer with a answer, you answer with a question?
Everyone is complaining about alliance players “pathetic” behaviour in game, even alliance players complain about themselfs. And we dont speak only about this thread. On WM forum section there are plenty of examples also.
There are limits. There are moments when is ok, fun and fair to apply wpvp and there are moments when its not ok. Majority of horde players (we have our rotten tomatoes also), know thoose limits. But your alliance doesnt know.
You keep promoting that you want a fair and fun WPVP. Well, where is it? Where is the fairness in examples i gaved above? Or lets go more simple: where is the fairness between us (our real example,when you run away from me, instead to fight me 1v1)?
And then you come at the end, pretending you are some sort of “Socrates”, that knows the answer to everything and pretend that you are smart. Thatswhy i am rude with you and i dislike you: because everything you do is to pretend to be something else, but in reality you are a pathetic little kid that enjoys unfairness and cowardness.
I gaved you countless arguments and one of the strongest one is this one:
EU region total population stats are : 51% horde and 49% alliance. So out of thoose 49% alliance, that we consider as 100%, only 20-30% of them keep WM on. Why? The number of players to equal horde exists. But the will is not. Why? You keep complaining that horde outnumbers the alliance. But you have the necessary number of players to equal and balance us. Yet, you dont do it. Why? Why?Why?

Well for me it was fun to do this comparisson. I apologize, i didnt knew you are such a dramatic person and that you cant understand a joke. I promise i wont repeat it, when i talk with you.

I dont think. I am very sure.
There are ways to counter this “favoritism” towards a faction and i gaved solutions in the WM forum section, yet all of them where rejected as being stupid solutions:
-add WM enable/disable cooldown
-penalize a player if the atacks another player with lower lvl or ilvl
-remove all bonuses from the game or make them equal
-add more wpvp quests/rewards,but thoose rewards to contain only pvp rewards (like honor or conquest)

Ofc people who have nothing to do with wpvp, will enable it, if the bonuses exists. Even that 10% is a incentive to activate. Not to mention alliance’s rewards (AOO, 400ilvl gears,more bonus etc).
Blizzard’s mistake is that they combine content rewards between themselfs. What i mean is this: they add as wpvp rewards pve rewards (AOO gives a pve rewards, a 400ilvl) , pet battles world quests give azerite power or resurces as rewards, pvp world quests (aka invasions) give pve rewards…and so on.
Why dont they separate the rewards? Why wpvp content has only honor or conquest rewards? Why pet battles haves only pet battles related items as rewards? And so on…
And because of this we have this isssue of inequality and drama between factions.
If they would separate the rewards, then PVE player would not join WM and they would stay out of this. Thatswhy when a AOO quest is active, you see a lot of alts with 200 ilvl , joining raids to kill hordes and so on.

Yes, its true, both faction have, but alliance have more of “theese abusers” type players than horde. We all know it.

I played both factions, as i said above, to raise my heritage armors and i can say without any doubts that leveling a alliance alt is more easier and “without so many dangers” than leveling a horde alt.
…
The main issue of this “War Mode Drama” is that Blizzard didnt implemented certain features to make it a real wpvp enviroment. And it is so simple to fix it , yet they dont care.

62

I don’t think you understand fair play.

Fair play means equal opportunity, not incentivizing one side.

Also your flirting with fancy words, I mean that’s great but according to your standards wpvp is structured around an objective as well. It has a goal, 25 hordes for a piece of loot? Is that not a goal? 🤦

I mean at least put some effort in it mate