I’m against Hunter Mark in shadowland for mutliple reason :
Since when they design the class, they balance all class to 100% of damage together, that mean hunter mark is inside that 100% balance.
Since they will not do 105% damage instead of 100% in 1 target , hunter damage gonna loose 5% of his AoE damage , so we gonna loose Dps and we gonna be rejected in Mythic + since we will miss 5% damage in aoe beacause our class is balanced to 100% only by 1 target instead of without hunter mark.
In actual PvP ( BFA) Hunter mark is dispellable, that mean the healer know already who you gonna focus and can prepare his healing on him. Since Hunter Mark will cost a GCD for applying just a extra 5% into the target, when the hunter use Hunter mark the healer can trade the hunter GCD by a simple dispell. That mean hunter by appliying just Hunter mark don’t deal damage and he loose it merely instantly without that being more efficient than a instant spell.
That mean too if Hunter mark is dispellable all hunter will loose -5% damage in arena basically just “for fantasy of the class” instead of balancing hunter in arena.
I don’t feel myself up to play hunter and applying hunter mark everytime just for dealing my normal damage when other class don’t have to mind that and deal the same damage than you without loosing 5% damage and dealing 5% more damage than a hunter.
The only way if they want to keep Hunter Mark in Shadowland is to make targeted by Hunter Mark not dispellable and calculated to be 5% more damage than all other class in the game in 1 target, and for AoE and Cleave to be equal to all other class / spec
If not , don’t bring Hunter Mark to Shadowland. I prefer a hunter with damage balanced with other class than Hunter not viable beacause of “fantasy of the class”
I get why many players would want it as a baseline ability and not a talent.
Like you said, the 5% bonus to damage added as a passive, it would not be a bonus. It will be accounted for within the total tuning for the class. Meaning other abilities will do less damage to compensate.
Based on this, I would say that the best option, is to add it in baseline, but remove the bonus to damage entirely.
Make it’s design only be about preventing enemies from going invisible/stealth and such.
Even if they were to remove it from the GCD, it would still be just as useless for most parts of the game where you don’t need it for stealth-prevention.
It will be at shadowland, that why i’m manifesting here.
I don’t think it will be since people gonna complain about it legacy and for a baseline spell on reveal invisible/ stealth for a GCD it will never be used.
The main issue is if that gonna be used like that it’s gonna be a useless spell since it will be dispelled too easely in PvP (cloack of shadow/ Dispell healer etc ) and this case will not be met in PvE situation.
Correction: We want it back for rogues. 5% dmg increase or not.
We want rogues to waste cloak on mark because we can simply put it up again quickly. And it helps potential caster partners being more available to set up with the rogue having one less immunity.
If they dispell it, put it up again. let them waste mana dispelling it.
Also imagine the shenanigans we can get up to with this covenant ability:
Resonance Trap : Hurls a resonance trap to the target location that fills the area with echoing anima for 10 sec when the first enemy approaches it. The effect causes your attacks to ignore line of sight to enemies in the area, and you have 30% increased critical strike chance against them. Trap will exist for 1 min. 40 yd, Instant, 1 min cooldown
Just they don’t care about you reply hunter mark or not. if they are stealth it’s already to late since a rogue will ST/ CS you instantly so reapplying it is just useless.
And in 2v2 when you are with a healer the rogue don’t need cloack of shadow since if he take trap his healer can dispell him and hunter is mostly about physical damage (exept if survival with poison but it’s more a azerite trait that will disapear and the bomb is not always active.
remember while you are applying it the healer can dispell it easely since when you use Hunter Mark you don’t deal damage beacause of GCD (GCD applyed since 5% more damage is considered as damage dealt). And that not with applying hunter mark you and your mate will kill someone even by reveal since you don’t deal the dmaage for the kill set up.
As i said even if it can be “0,1 %” utility for hunter in pvp it will be 0% used in PvE on M+ for example beacause of the GCD or even beacause it’s useless to use it.
For Warlord Holinka have feeback of MoP of people having useless spell and make no sense for them having it into the spell book since they didn’t used them.
If it’s to make a useless spell again in PvE ( beacause all spell must be both usefull in PvP and PvE or not set in the game) it not gonna make sense and will not be added to the game.
What is that ???
Shadowmelt will solve the issue even if hunter mark. beacause it untarget you from him, but the hunter can still see him and retarget him again. And this convenant abillity will only be use in PvE since it’s a trap and easely dodgeable for PvP player, and beacause it’s PvE it’s beacause crit does only 150% more damage instead of 200% in PvE.
Remember that trap only increase damage, so you have to combo with either binding shot or a slow. So that covenant ability is only for PvE ( maybe BiS for PvE i think but 0 for PvP ).
Just no, if you already marked with hunter mark the player, never use flare since after you flare the opponent can easely ask for dispell and vanish / shadowmelt / Prowl (while KotJ used) to put you in trouble.
The only case you gonna use flare is in start of the match to reveal oponent and get your oppener with camouflage or when the rogue will vanish after your healer is blind to sap you try to prevent him to sap with flare ( mostly useless beacause submerfuge (talent rogue that allow rogue after break stealth to still use stealth ability after 3 sec) will get him anyway ).
Not only hunter. All class must think a step ahead in PvP.
sprint used in stealth ? binding shot after he engaged and spam slow and this rogue is dead since he will never be able in the last 1 mn to set up crowd control easely into my healer.
This rogue gonna be under 1K8 CR.
And for speaking about direction you gonna get only 50% to get him : 50% for the left side of pillar / 50% for the right side of pillar.
but i got even better : you got a pet so he will not be in stealth / he got bleed by your mate / he had already use shadowstep on you to crowd control you and trying to set up kill.
Remember what i said
They don’t care about your flare since even if stealth broken they ST on you and use stealth ability on you, your flare and hunter mark will not save you.
if you stay at 40 yard of the pillar while the rogue is behind, the rogue won you since you will not be able to get him in sight so you can flare him but after flare he can restealth after that beacause you are too far from him.
You only use trap behind yourself to avoid shadowstep only if you are in trouble already and you and your healer don’t have trinket, otherwise if the rogue gone defensively in stealth you just have to hide from him and do the same, wait he open into his healer, if he wait just spam flare around like in the opener or go set up kill into his healer.
Never use trap in dps, healer/DH can dispell it easely and you gonna waste a set up kill just beacause you thought you counter play him.
this thing to trap shadowstep only use defensively while his healer is far away or in case of 1V1.
Here you forgotten in arena he’s not alone.
Where in the topic we spoke about that ?
In your topic you spoken in the case it’s only reveal stealth people am i not ?
Confirmed so Tyranical in that case or not it change nothing , Hunter mark will be useless.
Now if we speak if it increase 5% damage on 1 target in tyranical :
Tyranical : boss represent 60% of the dungeon when this affix is applied, that mean your hunter mark ( remember that your hunter mark is balanced in baseline damage and does not make you 5% better than other classe) will only be 3% damage increase , that mean in Mythic + you will loose 2% damage overall just by the design of hunter mark.
Now in fortified it’s way worst : mobs represent 75% of the dungeons , that mean your hunter mark only increase 1,25% of your damage overall, you gonna loose 3,75% of damage in difference of other classe.
Either way in M+ you will even if all class is perfectly balance you will loose damage. So even before Shadowland come out Hunter is not viable for M+.
Long raid boss with only 1 target ( that we see now it began to be more rare to got only 1 target and multi-target mechanic emmerge from wow in raid). You will deal the same damage as all other dps, you will not make 5% extra more damage than other classe or if that the case hunter damage will be nerf because all the other class gonna whine about it .
Will not matter since hunter mark will be calculated in balance with other class in your main rotation, you think you increase 5% damage but you will not since blizzard in the end of design making make simulation to balance all the other class to a baseline damage with the same gear. You think you will deal more, but the only thing you will get is if you forget it you loose DPS.
So if a class is not viable it will stay not viable ?
Remember since legion there’s other content that come out : Mythic +
In mythic + you spend most of the time dealing aoe damage and when boss you single target.
It’s finish " this class will only be good for raid or thing"
Todays all spec and all class must be viable everywhere or it will be called “unviable” and be not be taken anywhere.
Dispell = 3 % mana
baseline regenation while you are in GCD = 1,7% mana
5% extra damage prevented = 1,3 % mana prevented
Efficiency of dispell = cost no mana
If reapplyed Hunter mark = cost 2 GCD ( 3,4 second)
for hunter = waisted aimed shot damage and followed up by arcane shot.
if not used Hunter mark = 19% damage dealt to the player
healer = have to cast a 2,5% mana spell
regeneration made while cast time of 1,5 seconds = 1,5 %
Mana lost = 1 %
if you consider forum and this topic for trolling, you are wrong.
Let’s explain by simple value :
All class got 5 000 life point and got 100 dps
When hunter is designed with hunter mark, in this 100 dps rotation, hunter mark is apply. It will not deal 105 dps.
if you miss to apply Hunter mark , your dps will go down to 95.
So all other class will deal 100 damage when you will deal 95 % is missing but if you apply it you will join only in 1 target all other class at 100 dps.
Nothing of that is trolling, just ask for people explaination of their point of view if you don’t understand, or if i don’t understand try to give me a detailled different version and so maybe i will understand.
You are here in forum, where it’s to discuss / debate / answering to the topic and trading ideas. It’s not a place where " i’m right and you are wrong" it’s more like " this is my point of you and this is yours and we both share it into the forums".
1 less GCD required for something entirely passive. And frankly, useless for PvE anyway.
We can get the damage from it, added into our other abilities.
But still. Having it baseline would be good for those hunters that want it for PvP. Not having to pick a specific talent option in a specific spec, in order to get it.
Most likely, no. We won’t.
The current design of it giving us 5% more damage, it becomes a bonus because it’s a talent.
If they make it a baseline ability while keeping the bonus to damage on it. That damage will most likely be taken from our other damaging abilities to compensate.
I believe the point was that, using it over not using it would be a damage increase.
But due to the above, it won’t actually mean that we gain more damage as, our regular damaging abilities will do less damage to compensate.
First off Hunter’s Mark was off the GCD, so it was very fun applying it. Then it provided sight of stealthed units, which was important. Hunter’s mark was part of your rotation, making it important to use if you wanted to do more damage. AoE currently is through Ricochet, any damage you do to the target with hunter’s mark will mean higher AoE damage, too.
Anyway hunter’s mark is such a minor detail that it doesn’t need a thread on it’s own.
Basically we’re getting another skill that has utility and damage for free. Which means more and better talent options. It also means higher damage output. I doubt they balance around the fact that it increases your damage, since you cannot guarantee it’s up time.
What we need is more baseline skills that are currently in the talent tree and more skills off the gcd. Like it used to be. But it’s a lost cause. Why would tBlizard change something that was already deisgned so damn well and worked perfectly? Because they are incompetent, ignorant and stupid. No community feedback will fix that, because it doesn’t go through their thick skulls.
A baseline ability which, when applied, increases damage by 5%?
Yes, the class will be balanced around such a thing.
In most areas of the game, keeping it up on a target is no big deal. It’s just annoying.
Especially when talking multiple targets.
And especially, when you know that this “extra” damage, could be baked into other abilities by default.
to loose -3% damage just " beacause this spell was in vanilla" ?
Don’t say " We " when you don’t play hunter. Beacause if you were playing it you should know it’s just an annoying spell that just nerf hunter damage in AoE and annoying in PvP since you gonna waste a GCD for just a little useless mark to deal your proper damage. And the truth is more annoying when you know it’s dispellable and you must apply it again just for dealing normal damage alike other class that do not need to apply anything and deal the same damage in single target and they deal more than you in AoE.
How is pressing a button every single time you target a mob fun? It’s just annoying and pointless
No it doesn’t, damage is balanced around complete specs/talents.
Adding hunters mark back is absolutely pointless outside of PvP. If it’s off the GCD and adds no damage whatsoever then i’m fine with it, but if it’s anything like current MM version then it needs to be removed, FAST. Because that rubbish is nothing but annoying.