Yes, the goal is to attack and drive off the competition. How is it different?
After I’ve attacked them, they will either leave or stay nearby. If they decide to stay, they will be on the ground, and I can try to force another fight.
With flying allowed, they might still leave which will yield the same results. But, if they decide to stay, that will be in the air, where I can’t really force a fight. The result is this: 2 people flying, staring at each other, neither of which wants to go down and start farming because the other will attack.
Nope. I want to be able to scare off the farming competition. That, or have an epic battle. I joined the classic party a bit late; days before p2 started. My reasoning behind choosing a realm was like this: The realm has to be English-speaking, has to be PVP, and have the highest amount of alliance on it because I want to go horde. If my realm was horde-dominated or pve, people would be able to sneak in and take the farm away. And, what about the joy of a random battles occurring out of nowhere? On horde-dominated or pve realms, such 1 on 1 fights are not that common.
Then stop discussing things in the wrong forum?
I wasn’t even intending to post here in the beginning. All I was doing was browsing the forums and reading some of Kork’s wise teachings.
You can bet I will. This is the big world buff week with DMF up.
Pve realms are cool and all, but the thrill of abrupt and chaotic world pvp is gone.
I know you dislike how harder it is to establish dominance on a zone in a world with flying, but that’s exactly why it has a positive effect on world pvp. Because the world isn’t just about two players.
In a Classic situation, once a faction establish dominance over a zone, it’s extremely hard to wrestle control out of them. With flying in the equation, however, you can deliver a victorious strike even with inferior numbers, if you swoop down at the right time. Sure, the other faction can then retake the ground in the same way, but then it becomes less of a contest of numbers and more of a contest of will - i.e. who’s willing to fight the longest. Which actually is a healthier kind of WPvP if you ask me.
I’ve never claimed that WPvP on TBC is exactly the same as on Classic, nor have I claimed that you’re not allowed to prefer the WPvP as it is on Classic. Your problem is that (1) you seem to believe that everyone ought to prefer WPvP as it is on Classic, and that (2) flying mounts should be judged solely for what they do to WPvP, irrespective of any other consideration. Nevermind the fact that a lot of people don’t give a damn about what you like about the game.
Well don’t be surprised then if none of these changes happen to TBC, because people who don’t like these aspects of TBC are not supposed to be playing it anyway. Also don’t be surprised if, by the time TBC launches, you turn out to be a minuscule minority.
Good thing there’re a lot other things in the game to enjoy other than “abrupt and chaotic world pvp” then. Shocking concept, I know.
That’s exactly why it has a negative effect. The world isn’t there for a large group of individual players or small groups to enjoy. It is there for a 40-man raid to occupy any area they want, and rarely do people want to engage. Why would they, when flying gives them a safe afk zone.
It isn’t as hard as you think. Huge battles occur constantly on my realm. With flying in the equation, however, people with inferior numbers would never deliver a victorious strike because they would rather afk in the air and wait it out.
Any kind of world pvp, where the will to fight is stronger than the numbers, is truly healthier. But, flying messes it up.
I don’t believe that at all. I prefer classic’s world pvp. Don’t know how others feel about it.
So, you want to judge flying mounts on their other negative effects? Fine by me! Let’s see:
They make the world feel much smaller
They allow a player to explore all zones in a couple of hours and thus get bored quicker
They make some aspects of the game trivial and less challenging
Low-level ganking becomes much easier
Since people spend less time traveling, blizz will add some boring chore to keep players online longer
They are anti-social because everyone flies to their destination, and people don’t meet and communicate as often. Flying really dealt a bad blow to the sense of community
Other people shouldn’t give a damn about what any of us like. True individuals find their own way.
Why would I be surprised about any of this? I know acti-blizz won’t implement any of these changes. They will copy paste thc like they did with classic and be done with it. The only slight hope acti-blizz might do something good is shadowlands.
So, you want to talk about other things as well? Retail, as bad as it is, still has pet battles (pvp, pve, and hundreds of pets to collect), a lot of rare mounts to farm, transmog farming; rated battlegrounds, brawler’s guild battles, proving ground, mythic +, and a lot more. What does tbc have to offer? A bunch of raids, dungeons, arenas, and a few cool zones. If retail can get boring with all of that, I don’t even want to bother giving tbc a try. Even a more shocking concept, isn’t it?
Uh… no, no it is not. If that’s what you want, then stay in Vanilla with the rest of your 40m raid.
As a person who actually played back then on a PvP server, no that’s not how it works. I dunno if you’re projecting Modern WoW dynamics onto TBC or you’re just being conjectural, but that’s not how it works. Or how it worked, at least.
Any more stupid or subjective points?
Part of what makes Retail unappealing to new/returning players is actually how bloated it is. That, and the fact that class mechanics, itemization etc. completely sucks. No amount of content can redeem that aspect of the game. I dunno about you but I wanna play a MMORPG, not an ARPG.
That’s the opposite of what I want. With flying into the equation, the world becomes hostile to individual players or small groups. 40-man raids will dominate.
Without flying (like classic), even if a 40-man raid occupies a raid entrance, individual players will keep gathering (without an organized raid group or voice chat). Soon enough, the unorganized players will be able to break through the raid.
I can finally see some growth in you. Even if tbc was a decent expansion back in the day, the modern wow community will find ways to disrupt it. Same as with classic.
They are anti-social because everyone flies to their destination, and people don’t meet and communicate as often. Flying really dealt a bad blow to the sense of community Wrong. First of all, I dunno about you but I never stop while traveling to talk with someone on the road - heck, both me and the other party are likely semi-alt-tabbing anyway. If anything, flying makes it so that you spend less time alone and more time with others (doing quests/farming/instances), which should be what a MMORPG is about.
All flying does is decrease the journey. What if people can be together while traveling and spend more time on the ground? Like what a MMORPG is about? Guess you never figured that out. Also, imagine flying being so boring you have to alt-tab during it.
Since people spend less time traveling, blizz will add some boring chore to keep players online longer Since it’s a legacy game, nothing will be added
Nothing needs to be added - it already was added many years ago. The tedious dungeon grinding.
Low-level ganking becomes much easier Good thing it only works in Outland, then
Great thing to be honest. Only outland gets to be ruined. The classic continents as well as the new starting zones will be fine in this regard.
They make some aspects of the game trivial and less challenging Which ones, exactly?
World pvp, farming stuff in the open, travel in general, skipping dangerous ogre areas.
They allow a player to explore all zones in a couple of hours and thus get bored quicker I personally get more bored traveling then I get actually doing stuff
If that is so, maybe a MMORPG is not for you.
Oh, so now you want to throw the word subjective around? Not wise since half of the stuff you say are subjective.
You think it is bloated? That is subjective. Others might not find it bloated.
Class mechanics and itemization sucks you say? You feel like they suck? That is subjective. I think they suck even more. See, I can throw around subjective points as well.
Seeing as what you’re saying, a MMORPG might not be that great for you. You seem to dislike a ton of its aspects.
Seeing as your worthless threat was closed, I will have to debunk your misconceptions here instead:
Now, while it’s true that Classic has more group quests than TBC does, ask yourselves: how many of the people you know now , outside your guild, are people you bonded over during your levelling experience?
I bonded with a lot of people. Players, I helped kill overseer Maltorius, or the STV Nesingwary quests, or any other elite quest. Or, players I saved in world pvp. Or the cheap dmt sellers. We exchanged battle tags or, at least, always greet each other when we meet in the open world. Since tbc has less group quests, these people will never call out for help. Since flying exists, they will rarely need my help either.
As far as I’m concerned, I levelled between Aug 27th and Sept 6th (as well as between October and Feb with 5 other alts), and I honestly can’t think of a single person among my regular friends outside guild that levelled alongside me - most of them are people I met once I was at 60. The fact people level at different speeds and, thus, you’re unlikely to meet most of them more than once or twice doesn’t help.
Classic aint what it used to be. The realms are bigger and people meet much more often. Besides, I have a great name memory and remember meeting the same people many times in the open world.
On top of that, I can’t say the scarcity of resources actually encourages, well… friendly contacts between people. Sure, sometimes grouping helps, but many other times (such as with collection quests) it’s simply not possible. Most of my positive social experiences outside guild, during levelling, have been in dungeons - where people have an actual incentive towards working together and reap the benefits. And that’s something that works just as well (even more so - I’ll get to it later) in TBC.
Scarcity encouraging friendly contacts? Did you not hear about the black lotus farmers and hoarders? Scarcity makes em greedier. That’s been the case for awhile.
As for the dungeons - people have always had an incentive to work together in dungeons. In classic, tbc, and all expansions. Tbc aint an exception at all.
First of all, Classic’s dungeons have next to no replayability. Once you have your pre-raid BiS gear (and/or once you replace this gear with raiding gear), what motivation do you have to go into raids aside from farming the occasional Skin of Shadow or helping a guildie? In terms of gph, grouping for dungeons is much, much less efficient than solo farming - even if you’re just killing mobs in the outer world for money. In TBC, on the other hand, the existence of BoJ prolongs the viability of dungeons nearly ad infinitum. Sure, in terms of gph they’re still worse than solo farming, but to a much lesser extent.
First of all, classic’s dungeons are huge with many times more bosses than the dungeons of any of the expansions. They require doing runs again and again if you want to complete all quests.
Not having replayability? As a rogue, I run BRD and DM for pickpocket farm. T2 people still spam BRD for the hoj trinket or the arena. A lot of people go to DMT for a few quick buffs. Some items are bis for quite awhile.
Speaking of solo farming, the amount of farming you have to do in Classic if you wanna use consumables in raids is huge. We’re basically talking about something like 3-4 hours for every hour of raiding, if not more. In TBC, on the other hand, the amount of money and time you need to spend for consumables is less than half of what you require for Classic (largely because of how cheaper flasks are in TBC, and the fact you don’t use elixirs and rum on top of them).
3-4 hours for every hour of raiding? I can farm one hour in the Eastern Plaguelands and then another in Winterspring for enough herbs to make consumables for multiple raids. Half an hour farm in the Badlands for them small buffs. It takes me less than 30 minutes to collect all world buffs and enter the raid without summons. Other stuff like different potions and thistle tea, I can buy for some gold. I can always farm up that gold in 30 minutes. I do indeed need to farm if I want to arrive fully-prepared and buffed, but 3-4 hours for one hour of raiding? More like 3-4 hours of farm for 2 weeks of raiding.
Furthermore, the much-reviled dailies of TBC offer you pretty much the same gph whether you do them solo or in group - unlike mob/resource farming in Classic which has drastic diminishing returns if you do it in a party.
Only time will tell. Do not underestimate the modern community in its never-ending quest for gph efficiency.
In short, if you’re a PvE player, you end up spending a lot less time playing with others in Classic than in TBC. How is that conducive to community building?
A lot less time you say? I meet the same dmt buff sellers every week. There are running memes in world chat about that. The same people organizing mount runs in zg. The reputation farms. The time spent together might not be more, but it sure aint less than tbc.
This is, well… not that true. Or, at least, somewhat misguided. While it’s arguably true that you have more opportunities to have WPvP in Classic than in TBC - due to the fact you gotta travel on foot - you generally need help when it comes to WPvP for objectives, such as questing/farming grounds. And this sort of thing happens just as well in TBC, due to the fact that many important mats (Cobra Scales, Primal Air/Fire/Mana, Netherscales, etc.) are restricted to few, highly farmed zones. Sure, you can always fly away in TBC, but you can’t accomplish anything up in the air.
So basically, tbc makes no difference in this regard.
As for instanced PvP, well… X-realm pugging really can’t foster bonds at all, so I guess what people refer to here are premades. Personally, the only point I can see here is about AB premades. WSG premades are not that big compared to 5v5 arena teams (I mean, are you telling me you can create bonds over WSG premading but not 5v5 arena?), and AV premades, well… technically only one faction has access to them to begin with, so for most people AVing in Classic is not that different from AVing in TBC in terms of community feel.
No difference in this regard here either. Only a copy/paste from classic. Arenas do make a difference, but that’s pretty much the only true innovation over classic. But not over retail.
Now, I’m sure many of you can recount many fantastic community experiences in Classic, and I’m lucky enough to be able to tell the same. But, at the same time, I can’t help but feel that the game doesn’t encourage me towards these experiences as much as some people like to think. At the very least, much less so than TBC would.
That is so subjective. You feel like that, but others don’t need to give a damn about how you feel, eh?
Do you have any more idiоtiс or subjective points?
And that’s why the whole “roll on PvP servers for the authentic experience” is and always was a meme. PvE servers offered a much more Vanilla-like experience, both at launch and even now, than PvP servers did - especially the most populated PvP servers such as Gehennas, Shazzrah etc.
Hopefully people wisened up and won’t make the same mistake in TBC.
No, when I said “alt-tabbing” I was referring to actually riding - wait, did you think people actually stared at the screen while riding through Barrens, Wetlands or Arathi Highlands?
What you call “the journey” is just boring downtime when you’re alone, doing nothing but waiting until you actually get to the destination. So, pretty much the same thing as with flying but longer and more tedious.
If anything, I very much welcome how dungeons in TBC are a lot more relevant than in Vanilla, both in terms of the challenge and in terms of the reward. But if you find it more fun to autorun through Duskwood or STV than playing with your friends in Botanica or Shattered Halls, be my guest.
As for the rest of your points, they seem to be focused around WPvP and outdoor activities - again, if that’s your focus, you’re more than welcome to keep playing in Classic. But stop assuming that everybody should like what you like and that games that don’t put as much of a focus on these things are “flawed”. Part of the reason why flying was introduced is because, surprise surprise, people actually don’t enjoy spending an inordinate amount of time traveling every single time instead of actually do what they’re playing for. It’s fun the first time, which is why you don’t get fly until near max level.
Why would flying make you less likely to help people around? If anything, the fact I can get there in a couple mins, help, and get out of there actually makes me more likely to answer a “LF help with Overseer Maltorious” message on chat than I would be if I had to spend 10 mins riding there. This doesn’t make any sense.
Isn’t that exactly what I said?
Why would you want to complete all the quests? I barely did any, and all they give you is gold and a few items that you no longer care about once you’re beyond pre-raid BiS.
Soloing dungeons for money isn’t exactly what I was talking about. I was talking about actually forming parties to run dungeons. In TBC, Badges of Justice give you an incentive to run any dungeon with people, even past the point where you no longer need dungeon drops. In Classic, outside of a few chase items like HoJ and running into DMT for buffs, you just have no reason to do so. Heck, I generally get DMT buffs from an already cleared instance - when I bother, that is.
Flash news - casters actually use flasks, unlike rogues. Ofc you spend a lot less than I do on consumables.
The bulk of your gph on dailies comes from the quest reward, not from looting mobs. Ofc there’ll be more efficient ways of making gold than dailies, but if you just need gold to buy consumables and nothing else, dailies will do.
Again, it must be an easy life playing rogue.
Considering your appreciation for WPvP, we clearly have a different idea of what counts as social experience in WoW.
In the end I’m the one who will get what I want (TBC) while the few WPvP fanatics you are will be left in ghost-town Classic servers. Have fun, you won’t be missed.
While I do agree pve servers offer a safer raiding experience and are thus vanilla-like, I would never sacrifice world pvp for some safety. And, pvp is but one aspect of the game. The modern wow community can and will disrupt pve realms as well.
Yes I did think that. Flying makes these zones obsolete, and people wouldn’t even look at them and would rather do something outside the game. A true massive multiplayer game; where everyone flies somewhere and few pay attention to the zones.
Longer? Yes.
More tedious? You are being subjective again.
Everybody should like what they like. You are the one who keeps making such assumptions.
When the only things tbc has to offer are, surprise surprise, a bunch of new raids, dungeons, and arenas. I guess nothing else matters. Classic offers so much more, and therefore traveling has a meaning.
But good ol Overseer Maltorious is not in outland. He is in the no-fly zone. How can you fly there? You will have to ride there.
Making no sense? Tbc has less hard elite quests and therefore less people will want my help. Pretty simple stuff.
Now, if flying existed in zones with a lot of elite quests (like the old continents), things change. But, that happened in Cataclysm. And, those quests were changed anyway.
My bad on that one.
Because I want to experience everything this game has to offer.
Imagine running the same dungeon again and again forever for some badges.
Here, is where classic shines - it has some sort of balance. Dungeons are still important even in the later patches, but they don’t require constant grinding for some badges.
I use flasks all the time. Even if my flask runs out on the last boss, I would still pop another. And, it aint only flasks - thistle tea for almost every boss, healing pots, juju power, juju might, blasted lands buffs, food buff, sharpening stones, and all the anti-stun/dot/whatever defensive potions.
I am ok with that. MoP had a similar daily quest system.
If only I had the ability to aoe farm everything in the game.
Pretty obvious.
Seeing as how much efforts acti-blizz put into their games, I wouldn’t be joyful yet.
I would definitely sacrifice world PvP if it means avoiding all the dungeon levelers, the AoE mage levelers (just to give you some perspective, the first lvl 60 Horde-side on our realm was a Druid, and I still finished in the top 20 with a Shatter single-target spec), and all the hardcore meta mentality intoxicating realms like Gehennas or Firemaw.
Well I didn’t. A lot other players didn’t. People wouldn’t even look at these zones regardless because after riding through them for the 999th time people kinda don’t care anymore. Maybe you do. Good for you, you can always dismount and take the scenic route if you want. But most ppl don’t, and that’s why they welcomed flying in TBC with open arms.
We’ll find out how many ppl feel like you, rather than like me, once TBC launches.
All I’m saying is that, if you don’t like flying, then maybe TBC isn’t the game for you. You’re basically judging TBC through the lens of a Vanilla player, without realizing that what you see as a flaw is actually considered as a pro by many other players who think Classic is a tedious and relatively unengaging farmfest.
So much more what? What am I supposed to get from travelling for the 999th time through a zone I’ve been playing into for years? I could almost draw the entire Wetlands map by heart at this point - what do you think I get from spending several minutes of my time walking through the same plains and marshes I’ve been walking on for years? More to the point, if I wanted to actually do that, what stops me from, you know, dismounting and do exactly that? If I fly it’s because it doesn’t matter, not because it would matter but I’m prevented from enjoying it.
Let’s put it this way then - I’m much more likely to help a group asking for help on Azzorius the Cruel or Cho’wal the Pillager if I can just fly there, help and get out than if I have to spend several minutes making my way through swathes of mobs to get there. Is it clearer now or do I have to draw a graphic or something to get through your nitpicking brain?
TBC still has plenty of group quests. Cruel’s Intentions, the Nagrand chain involving the demon hunter, the various chain quests in Shadowmoon Valley and Netherstorm, etc. Flying simply makes it faster and less costly for people to actually go help each other - which actually incentivizes ppl to do so. I can’t count how many times in Classic I’ve seen ppl asking for help on chat and thinking, between myself, “Well screw that I’m not walking across the entire map just to kill an elite mob”. If I had a flying mount I would’ve just zoomed there and helped, because why not.
Well, judging from how hard it is to find a dungeon group these days, I’d guess not a lot of ppl agree with your sentiment.
Imagine running the same dungeon again and again forever for some buff.
Not sure what you’re trying to demonstrate here.
Personally I prefer the badge system because it doesn’t turn loot grinding into a luck-based quest - even the most coveted trinkets in TBC dungeons generally have at least a 10-15% dropchance, which is counterbalanced by the fact there’s a daily lockout. But if you prefer the Classic casino, again have fun with it. Also, I’m curious to see how easily you’re going to find healers interested in running Arena/Angerforge (or other DPSers, if you reserve HoJ). At least in TBC everybody needs badges, so you don’t need to deal with the whole “Class X doesn’t need anything from that dungeon” crap we have in Classic - like how only healers generally wanna run DM:W, or how it’s super-hard to find a tank for Strat Live unless you give them first orb.
And if you wanna tell me that you can drum up over 250-300g of consumables (1 flask alone costs over 150g even nowadays - back when I made my thread it was over 200g worth) in less than 3 hours, either your server pays more for boosting services/AH goodies or you’re straight up lying.
As long as PvE encounters are properly scripted, I can’t really see what else can ruin my fun. Sure, I’d prefer if we didn’t get all bosses in their 2.4.3 state, since some bosses were more fun prior to some of the nerfs, but even with 2.4.3 stats I’m definitely going to enjoy it - even 2.4.3 Kael’thas is leagues better than any PvE encounter Vanilla has to offer.
I would always choose world pvp, but you have a point there too. It’s a matter of taste.
There is no way to find out that. Ground mounts will be irrelevant day one because of all the gold stacking from classic.
Spot on. I will go with classic till its end and then switch back to retail.
So much more what you say? Classic has spontaneous world pvp because there aint no flyin. The unique large dungeons which other expansions lack. The existence of various world buffs which require traveling. And, how about the community? People will meet each other more often.
You never cease to amaze me. Tbc has fewer elite quests than classic. Therefore, fewer people will ask for help. How do I make is simpler?
Great MMORPG thinking right there. Who needs a massive world if you can fly anywhere in a couple of minutes. You should start playing easy browser games or something. MMORPGs aint for ye.
You should relocate to a different realm.
It’s simple - you have to kill the same npcs over and over again for ever. Me? I only run around collecting my buffs, and maybe lockpick a hidden chest, and that’s it.
I never reserve anything. Classic casino all the way.
Where did you pull those 150g out from? My flask costs 8g or something. 2 mountain silversages, and 2 plagueblooms. Didn’t I mention I was a rogue? You seem to pay little to no attention to anything.
Sure hope you are right. I still doubt any of the fights will be that challenging. Back in retail, there were some fights which were nerfed 3-4 times in a few months; each time losing 10% boss hp, or 20% damage on their their main abilities, or even 30%+ hp nerfs on the adds. And, these fights still packed a punch, and most people were wiping for weeks. As for whether bosses were fun prior to the nerfs - subjective again?
No what I meant is, we’ll see how many ppl choose to stay in Classic (or just move on) rather than go TBC.
Good for you. But you see, contrary to what you may think, there’s a lot of ppl who like TBC - also because of flying, or at least how flying is handled in TBC (as opposed, say, to Cataclysm and onwards). I’m pretty sure TBC will show similar numbers to Classic, probably with less of a dropoff post-launch.
Again, world PvP isn’t “content”, at least not if you’re specifically interested in it and rolled on a PvP server.
Large dungeons are more of a nuisance than anything after the first few times - almost nobody looks for full BRD runs nowadays for example, unless it’s the one time while they’re still leveling.
World buffs are just a colossal waste of time that make PvE content even less challenging and enjoyable than it would otherwise be. They were removed from the game for a good reason.
You can still meet people in TBC - even moreso than in Classic, since you have more time to spend with them than you have to waste traveling, staying logged out for world buffs, and so on.
But at least you actually do get help when you ask, in TBC. In Classic, unless it’s one of those “passing through” areas like that Ogre elite quest in Brackenwall village, most ppl won’t help you. I’ve spent hours while levelling post launch - somewhere around December/January - to ask for help for elite quests, and the only times I’ve found groups is when there actually were ppl like me who needed said quests. Whereas in TBC it’s a lot more common to get a roaming lvl 70 to just fly in and help you.
Too bad that’s how most ppl reason. So unless you plan to oust the majority of the playerbase (and you might get your wish once everybody and their little dog moves to TBC), it’s not going to work.
If you’re trying to claim it’s not like this nearly everywhere, either you’re being insincere or you’re just naive.
How do you farm, say, BRD or Skin of Shadow or Dark Runes or w/e without, you know, actually killing mobs? The only difference is that, when you look for a group for, say, HoJ you run into the issue that there’s nothing else ppl may be interested into to run the dungeon with you, so either you accept competing with 2-3 other ppl for HoJ or GL forming a group. In TBC, since BoJs are a thing, I can always form a group whether it’s to get Quagmirran’s Eye in Slave Pens or Hourglass of the Unraveler in Black Morass.
That’s not a flask. It’s called an elixir, you moron. Flasks are stuff like Flask of Supreme Power or Flask of the Titans, which cost a ton of gold each. That’s why I told you before “it must feel nice to be a rogue.”
Well, considering I did do those fights (both back then and on pservers), I can definitely tell they were significantly harder than anything I’ve ever seen on Vanilla (both back then and now).
If classic gets replayed by tbc, there will be no way to find out. If classic remains as it is, it will eventually close down because wow as a game needs new patches to keep going. Other than the biggest fans staying for years, almost all other players will leave due to the lack of new content.
Will be looking forward to see some numbers when that happens.
It is content which players create themselves.
World buffs have their issues, and I aint a fan of em, but they are still a unique feature. My realm has a meme community all around them world buffs. Also, I often travel with other people, and spend time with them. And, when I log off with my main to preserve buff time, I log in on my alt.
Maybe you need to try a different realm? Here, people find help often. Once again, this is purely a community thing.
Yup, MMORPGs aint what they used to be. Don’t expect tbc to improve it in this regard.
I am claiming you should give other realms a chance. I can’t talk about most realms, but the 2 realms I play don’t match your description.
I don’t kill em anymore. I simply run around dmn collecting buffs, or brd pickpocketing mobs. No need to kill anything.
You questioned if I would spend 250-300 gold for consumables, even though I was a rogue, you complete mоrоn. Rogues’ dps can’t benefit from these flasks. Did you seriously think I would spend gold on some extra health or resistances?
A rogue spending hundreds of gold for some extra health?
So, you get to have this super powerful dps buff, but I don’t? It must feel great to be a mage.
Harder than vanilla/classic? Absolutely. Harder than retail? Not a chance. That’s why I’m planing on going back for shadowlands and giving the new expansion a chance.
I never queue for bgs.
Some people fight for honor points in classic. Others fight for arena rating in tbc. I simply fight.
They had to enforce the incoming e-sport stuff and small brackets bring more teams and more money. I was really disgusted by it at the original release, especially because some team comps where nerfed into oblivion, with the excuse of being either too performing for their tastes or too dominant. Too bad that things like RMP and any combination of them in the 2vs2 Stood dominant for the entire expansion and most of WotLK too.
I agree that Classic has no chance of surviving unless it follows the “fresh” meme, because Vanilla in its “last phase” sucks long-term. This is another thing that negatively distinguishes Vanilla from TBC and WotLK - both 2.4.3 and 3.3.5 are gamestates that can be played and enjoyed for years, and are a lot less unfriendly to new players than 1.12.
Personally, I’d rather have the freedom of heading to the instance in a more leisurely way - staying in the game instead of logged out, chatting with others. You know, playing. This whole having to log off, making alts if you want to stay logged, adds very little to the playing experience unless you especially enjoy the WPvP aspect associated with keeping wbuffs.
As I say with people claiming the same about Loot Council guilds… I’ll believe it when I see it. After having played somewhat continuously for 10+ years on pservers (and an extra 3-4 years on retail before then), I tend to trust my own experience over others’.
Have you ever considered, then, that when you said:
maybe you should consider that most people don’t play rogue and have to spend a lot more time and money for their consumables? Claiming that using consumables in Classic isn’t costly just because you play a melee DPS is silly.
Except Rogues can do even more DPS than a Mage blowing all buffs, even in Naxx. So I’m not really sure of what you’re trying to say here - are you telling me I should be grateful that I have to spend a lot more money to achieve the same level of power you can achieve with a fraction of what I spend?
Retail has other issues that ruin it, that don’t have to do with raid difficulty per se.
Not a chance. There was a large private server back in the day, with players from all across Europe. It had 2 versions: wotlk 3.3.5 and a cata server. The 3.3.5 server lasted for 2 years. It had 10,000+ or so active players at one point, but 1 year in, only a few percent were left. Raiding guilds left, nobody was doing arenas anymore, bgs were rare. The only people who were actively playing were altoholicks who enjoyed leveling. Without new content, no wow expansion can prosper. Of course some people will remain for awhile, but with so few people, stuff like pvp and competitive raiding go out the window.
That’s perfectly fine either way. Thanks to world chat, memes and jokes are only a few seconds away. For people who have no alts and want to preserve world buffs, it might be quite annoying, but I can always level my next alt while waiting.
+1
Yea, but a lot of people main mage or have a mage alt for the ultimate aoe farming which can yield them more gold than any rogue can possible dream off. Hunters can solo dmt for amazing gold too. Healers often skip these expensive buffs because heal log rankings are a meme since the people at the top make others intentionally take damage. The result is - healers simply heal and don’t care about crazy preparation. Lastly, while most classes are lazy these days (rogues including), if there was some super powerful but expensive buff for me, I would 100% spend extra time to farm it up.
You should be grateful for being able to farm extremely efficiently. Also, mages are exceptionally good at doing dps. On purely single-target dps fights, rogues, but mostly warriors are the strongest. But, on aoe or ranged-friendly sights, mages are super good, and out-dps rogues any day.
Those issues are why I quit the game awhile ago. But, retail is rich in other things like rare mount farming, achievement hunting, or pet battles, which have whole communities around them and are mostly unaffected by whatever problems the game is dealing with.
Well, I guess we’ll file this, too, under “our experiences are different”
I don’t do AoE farming nor I want to be forced to - I don’t think I’ve ever used Imp. Blizzard in my life and I’m not starting now. Feel free to call me lazy or w/e, but I’d rather play a game where I’m not forced to have an AoE-specced mage to farm enough gold.
And I don’t doubt you’d spend extra time to get a buff if you had to, but I also believe it’s a flaw of the game that buffs are so powerful and expensive. If you like it sure, but I still prefer it like it is in TBC where consumables are important but cheap enough that I can afford them in full even if I mostly spend my playtime leisurely doing dungeons and raids with my friends.
The bottom line is… you keep saying “But you can farm very efficiently”, or “But you can just get world buffs and then log on an alt”… But what do I exactly get from these experiences? You keep saying you get something from this, like from WPvP etc. Me, I definitely won’t miss them once we move to TBC.
You can say “add flying to the list of flaws” as much as you want, but I’d never do so - because (1) what you call “content” means nothing to me, and (2) what you call “just grinding mobs” is a lot more fun as content to me than your WPvP/world buff collecting/gold farming enjoyment, and having flying means I get to spend more time on this fun content than I can in Classic. I don’t really see what else needs to be added to this, nor do I see what’s wrong about a game that caters to this sort of palate.
Good for you. I myself have a 20-something mage, and will level it to 60 only using fire. I aint a fan of frost.
That is a perfectly-balanced statement. I myself prefer the ground world buff game state. Never was a fan of mob grinding, unless if it’s for some super awesome reward like the the heavenly golden cloud serpent from the timeless isle.
Guess most of these stuff are determined by player taste.
The quality of WPvP is actually superior in BC as it’s typically not just consumable spam or 40v1, it tends to be fighting over resources or groups clashing outside dungeons…
Let’s put it this way then - I’m much more likely to help a group asking for help on Azzorius the Cruel or Cho’wal the Pillager if I can just fly there, help and get out than if I have to spend several minutes making my way through swathes of mobs to get there. Is it clearer now or do I have to draw a graphic or something to get through your nitpicking brain?
You never cease to amaze me. Tbc has fewer elite quests than classic. Therefore, fewer people will ask for help. How do I make is simpler? 