No one said that. You said “If you wanna have fun, why do you even need honor?”. Although I consider it a silly question, I answered. And still you have something irrelevant ta say.
I’ll repeat what it is all about (as I understand it):
-premades ruin the most important aspect of this game. To be able to compete. At least in some degree (for those that say not all premades win pugs). Being stomped in Farm or Stables graveyard, is a reason to quit this game. Because it is not about skill or effort (gear).
-no one wants people not able to be organized. So we want to find a solution where both “sides” can enjoy this game
Personally, if there was no middle ground (a formula) and if I had to choose, between the current situation and solo only or premade only options, I’d easily had chosen the latter.
English is not my first, or even second language (Greek and Russian are). Is not that I don’t understand your terminology, I just don’t understand what you are saying and feel confused every time. My points are clear and simple. You don’t even have points. Just argumentation against the main problem and if there is a way to fix it.
Anyone understands what Beware wants to say? Maybe it is just me.
Even if you ask at this point in time, all the people who hasn’t read all of the posts up 'til now are probably not going to read through it all now that the thread has already reached over 200 posts after all. Not to mention all of the other threads about the same subject with even more contextual background.
So in other words, you’re unlikely to get any real response to this by someone that has actually read it all, and not already shown their lack of comprehension.
But I’ll clarify it yet again for you then.
What it means is that the narrative they’re using as a driving force behind their complaints, is that it takes the “fun” out of the game like this. While that’s certainly true for the BGs where it becomes so one-sided, that wouldn’t be fixed with premade vs. premade either so the suggestion in itself is purely self-serving anyway, even when not counting in the many flaws in the concept itself of what the OP suggests.
But when you mix up the narrative to refer to getting rewards as being part of the fun, then what you’re turning the narrative as a whole into, is just people whining about wanting better rewards faster. Basically you’re turning the key motivation for the complaints into being about not having quick access to the rewards. Get it?
All of a sudden it then doesn’t mean the enjoyment of the gameplay itself, but rather about the rewards. This is why many people aren’t upfront about using it as a motivation for their complaints, because it corrupts the agenda. Even the dumbest person around understands that saying it’s because of the lack of “fun” will resonate with more people, while if saying that it’s because they want to be rewarded faster and better then it would turn more antipathy against them.
Basically one motivation is regarded as a just cause, while the other is seen as selfish and corrupt.
For someone who thinks so one-dimensional, it’s not surprising that you don’t get the many, many different facets to these issues. So it becomes a natural byproduct that you don’t understand what I talk about, when you fail to comprehend its relevance.
It’s sad that people just see the people with a different opinion as “filthy sweaty neckbeards who just want free honor and beat pugs” without reading and understanding some of the other reasoning behind why we’re hesitant to change the queue system further. I’m very sympathetic to casual players and solo players, but I think there are solutions to your issue already in game right now.
You can’t have a discussion if one side is blind to the conversation.
It’s just that the “casual solo players” doesn’t want to invest time. They don’t want to invest effort. But if they have to “solve it” by playing in a premade themselves, then it’s like telling them to do things they don’t want to do, which is to invest time and effort.
If you look at the source of their complaints, it’s that premades are “too hard to beat”, and while they could play in a premade themselves and bring more to the table to get a better chance at winning, it would clash with that dislike to invest time and/or effort.
To adapt the game to please people like these is how you end up with retail. Xrealm convenience with BGs 24/7 is already a result of using a retail system. Don’t need more of that.
So many people already told you that they CAN’T. You ignore anything does not suit your argumentation.
Again (and again and again):
-many people CAN’T afford to play in a premade. Personally I play 2-2,5 hours per day. But…this is not uninterrupted time. So no serious premade for me. And how many others?
-I used to think, that if I was in a premade, I will be leaving my frustration behind. But then I realized, that stomping random players in graveyard, and knowing that it is a 99% win, is not fun either. It is ONLY an effective way to farm honor.
Tell us Syl, the reason for those badly judged guys, to play in a premade. Except for farming pugs for obtaining ranks. Also tell us, how happy they feel, when it is a premade they meet, and not a pug, because they really want some competition.
Already said time and time again, that if they have no time to play a part of the game, then they should just stay away from that part without demanding Blizzard change the structure of the entire game itself just to suit themselves. Especially when retail already provides a game design suited to their needs.
Of course you can. Just not in a serious premade. But you can still play with a premade as long as you find likeminded others who understands your needs.
Entire game? And you want me, to consider you, as a person who really wants a serious discussion?
You also have this “the game is not for casual gamers” attitude. But casual players don’t ask epics for free. Or skill boos. Or being able to farm the same amount of honor as people that play much more.
I don’t remeber, why is premade vs premade, with honor bonus if the game is long (or another criteria) a bad idea? Not for Blizzard, because they have to actually do something new. For us, Classic WoW players.
PS: if solo players are much more than “premade players”, it is only logical that they should be listened.
I’ve explained it in painful detail, but you just keep struggling to grasp the concepts so you end up ignoring what’s already explained.
And yes, the ripple effects of changing such a system is seen both in the creation of social interactions as a whole as well as pace of reaching the rewards which in turn impacts PvE difficulty due to gear playing a big part in that.
According to the many people who complain, they aren’t though.
There’s also a large difference in player retention between the casual players and the core player base.
Now you’re just going around in circles. Good luck with chasing your own tail. I’m sure you’ll get it one day.
Oh, and here’s the funniest part when you put it into proper context:
You’re saying that this major part of the game should be changed in a way so that the people who doesn’t have time to play it should get more out of it, even though it would clearly mess it up for the already massive amount of players who does have time to do it properly.
Then why do we have a join as solo button at all?
Assuming all your arguments are correct, why do people still have the possibility to join solo? Would it not be in line (if your reasoning stands) to remove that button and with that adjust the expectation of the people playing?
It’s a relic from the game’s past. Clearly not a good fit for the gamers of today.
Exactly what I’ve been arguing for already, as a counterargument to the self-entitled wind blowing all around the place.
Here’s another fun fact for you:
This debate is also a thing on the NA forum. Theirs is more varied though, covering other topics as well, but the complaints about premades can be seen there too.
There are also people there saying that only full premades should be allowed to queue to get rid of the source of those complaints.
Now, we all know EU is overlooked and ignored like all the other WoW forums except for the NA forum, so it’ll be interesting to see where it ends up.
It wouldn’t be the first time Blizzard just ignores a problem until people stop talking about it though.
You could also call the point premade players are argueing for, self entiteld.
I would just leave these adjectivs out of discussions since it keeps them (the discussions) civilized.
Yes I am following the discussion on the us forum as well. What I would sign is the statement of someone:
“If you queue only premades vs. premades only 30% woud continue to premade because these are the players that are good. The rest of the premades would disolve because they would make more h/h in pugs since their premades are only good for stomping PuGs.”
I agree with this and believe that is the source for the endless discussions. A big amount of people fearing for their sweetspot they gained due to the misrable and untouched (except of CRBGS) system.
You wanna know something funny? No, I’m not. Only been invited once to the premades on my server, which is a pretty small server so there aren’t many around. I’m still working on getting bis gear so I can start my own premades though. Still several months away from that however.
People often try to find personal motives behind why I’m arguing for this or for that, but the arguments I present actually stand on their own. It’s just that many of you, obviously including yourself @Garodt doesn’t bother reading it or sometimes doesn’t even understand why it matters because it’s too abstract.
Why do casual players play in a premade? I play in a premade because I am playing with 9 friends, and to have fun. I don’t play to rank or get honor.
Thing is casual players have to understand they are unlikely to be able to rank the same as people who have the time able to dedicate to ranking. It’s a time commitment more than anything.
There are more facets than “premades just want to stomp people for honor” and “poor solo player”. There are also just people who want to have higher quality games so they matchmake with friends and/or randoms. Because when we meet premades we fight back hard as we can, even though we get stomped. Many times we cause anger for actual premades because we play to win instead of rolling over and letting them 3cap.
Imo Premades should only meet other premades, i havent been to a WSG or AB yet in classic, but by the sounds of it, i might as well skip it as i dont want to do premades.
Again that argument. They don’t want to rank the same. If they have less time to invest, both in PvE (so their gear is inferior) and PvP (so less honor) how would they rank the same?
Friends can play as 5 man groups. If you have more friends (lucky you) you can form a premade.
"Because when we meet premades we fight back hard as we can, even though we get stomped. Many times we cause anger for actual premades because we play to win instead of rolling over and letting them 3cap."strong text
Respect for that. Other players whisper me “stop fighting” when we face a premade.
@Bewarê then you should adress Blizzarg/Activison. As a customer I am not always intersted in completly understanding how a product works. Not trying to offend you, just explaining why most of the ppl (me included) dont read your thesis on “Rewards in computer games and their effect on the players”.
edit: see below me, there you have your self entiteled neck beard coming around (it fits both sides )
@syl that is fine, personal I would agree with a no honor for soloqueing in AB and WSG at all if you only get matched vs. PuGs but that is just me and there are many that would object.
Stop trying to make the game something it’s not. It’s not made for with casual solo players in mind, it’s not made to be a competitive at any level sort of game with MMR and rating. You can ofc play the game how ever you want, but the game is not going to reward you for it, and it’s not designed for dad gamers who play solo 2h a week.
I wouldnt mind that either. It is funny, that in this discussions, the question if it is fair or not (gameplay wise) always gets mixed up with the rewards. Leaving the conclusion that it is not the game itself peple are argueing for but the rewards.
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