Why AV is ruined at the moment! Why alliance can't win!

[Bewarê-frostmane]

@Murrue-finkle

As if taking/defending IB for alliance was the same as taking/defending SH for horde.

Now you’re probably talking about the distance to the cave, which is why I’ll refer you to these posts:

@Bewarê-frostmane

And dun baldar is more fortified than FW keep, especially with NPC density as well as all the bunkers being harder to cap solo compared to all the horde towers.

There are pros and cons to both sides, and alliance have a closer GY to the area near balinda which is where you actually end up facing each other for the first time on mounts at max speed. Which makes it faster for Alliance to replenish their forces than it does for the horde, at the first clash, which basically sets the pace of the BG (very hard to reset in full force from this without extreme coordination unlikely for randoms to perform).

All in all, the BG itself is decided by the stronger collective force of PvP prowess (for lack of better term). It’s just that some people focus more on the extrinsic reasons, and doesn’t look at the whole map and compare the two sides, and rather just point out specific things like the Americana OP did, with clear bias by neglecting to mention the big picture of things.

In other words, some people doesn’t view it as being their own fault but rather the fault of something else which just so happens to remove all responsibility from themselves at the same time. Funny coincidence, right?

“I’m not to blame, the WORLD is to blame!”

@Bewarê-frostmane

You have to look at the map as a whole before you claim it’s favored for one side or the other, and to examine it in great detail from a game designer’s perspective.

If you want a truly proper suggestion, then moving the horde cave to where both at max speed meets up in the middle of middle would be the best place.

Not where it is in retail.

But then you’d probably complain about the SH gy being further away than the horde gy, but as already mentioned right now the SH gy is closer than IB gy to the first clash point on the map, from a design perspective.

You don’t see Horde picking up their pitchforks and claiming injustice over that though.

Or that alliance spawning in cave after SP gy is capped, can via ranged attacks shoot down anything that can’t make it up to them fast enough to hit them as a melee. Like rogues for example.

It goes on and on.

It’s also easier to lock horde in their starting cave than it is to lock alliance in theirs, since the travel distance is so short from IB gy to the horde cave, compared to the roundabout distance you need to run from SP gy to the alliance cave.

So in the end, it actually does come down to the PvP after all. The side that wins in PvP is the side that wins the BG. As simple as that.

@Bewarê-frostmane

A BG is fundamentally decided by the ability to beat the opponents in the PvP encounters. It’s just that simple. It sets the pace and everything simply snowballs from there.
What affects this are things like shamans being better at offensive gameplay while paladins are better at defensive gameplay, and the collective gear average of your team, as well as class & role setup of the team. It all affects this outcome.

@Bewarê-frostmane

And alliance gets ported to cave when sp gy is contested instead of to aid station.

So if there really are 20 people ressed at the same time in the horde cave, then it’s the same in the alliance cave. So horde gets 20 people ressing to def IB gy, while alliance gets 20 people ressing to def SP gy.

@Bewarê-frostmane

If they get wiped at sp gy then the mechanism of equipping the trinket isn’t going to be what decides if it’s a loss or not.

That instead indicates they either have too many on the offense (happens sometimes), or their ability to win in PvP was just never on par with their opponents’.
Hence, they had already lost by this point and thus turns it kinda irrelevant. It’s also easier for alliance to recap SP gy than it is for horde to recap FW gy.

@Bewarê-frostmane

You can’t solo them if you’re not a ranged player, when they’re upgraded (veteran is possible solo as a melee, but not champion).
I do agree the version of AV should be reverted to the version previous this one from vanilla though. With mines and stuff. It’s what enabled AV lasting for days when NPCs had a bit more ‘oomph’ in them.

@Bewarê-frostmane

By the way, are we just going to ignore how the ram rider instructor in the middle of dun baldar has its horde equivalent outside of frostwolf keep? (Part of that NPC density I mentioned earlier, including but not limited to the NPCs at the level below the hill up to the actual “keep” which you can avoid pulling by running on the side which is pretty simple as well as the NPCs to the right side of the tower in the middle of that hill up to the “keep”.)