Why AV is ruined at the moment! Why alliance can't win!

[Kernkraft-anetheron]

Well AV weekend is over, lets see how queue times will be ^^

[Húrricane-ashbringer]

Question, why on earth would you dismount to kill 1 enemy? If you stand and fight, the alliance group will just start getting pushed in to a turtle due to GY layouts and its a waste of time. And a reply to Exid, if you see a 1v1 happening, in what way would it help you push/win the game if 4-5 other players dismounted to help you fight 1 guy? People stay mounted to push south and get better honour/rep instead of getting 20 honour a kill off an enemy horde.

[Kemurai-argent-dawn]

@Húrricane-ashbringer

Question, why on earth would you dismount to kill 1 enemy? If you stand and fight, the alliance group will just start getting pushed in to a turtle due to GY layouts and its a waste of time. And a reply to Exid, if you see a 1v1 happening, in what way would it help you push/win the game if 4-5 other players dismounted to help you fight 1 guy? People stay mounted to push south and get better honour/rep instead of getting 20 honour a kill off an enemy horde

Because usually it’s not a 1v1.
It’s a 5v2/3 etc.

This is the mentality that causes the alliance to lose.
“It’s just one person”
“Wtf why are you all up top?”
As the alliance get picked off 1 by 1.

[Húrricane-ashbringer]

Mentality to lose lmfaoooooo not sure how many I won, but over AV weekend my win rate was more then 50% easy with my premade leading pretty much every game. You are more useful to your team if you stick in a big group and not have trashy 5v4 skirmishes all over the map its useless. Don’t come at me saying about mentality when I play to win and if not win bonus honour. Please go and do some research about AV because ive said it before and I will say it again, a vast number of you guys complaining about losing AV don’t actually understand how to play it but rather call others out joining the horde on this one ‘Git Gud’

[Kemurai-argent-dawn]

“Premade” in AV.
I gave up on AV since of all the afkers/bots/ people not actually PvPing in it.

I guess you prefer a PvE BG than a PvP BG

[Húrricane-ashbringer]

Yeah every ranker was in AV the weekend you pleb as it got you extra honour then your normal AV games like I said go learn some things before you comment, you just make yourself look stupid and put yourself in the bracket of losers who cry about losing AV without having any clue on what to do If you want to do your little skirmishes, then WPvP is the one for you kid. Now AV weekend is over il be doing premade WSG bgs until this weekend when the BG weekend as back on

[Kemurai-argent-dawn]

Mm, the OP is from February.
When AV weekends weren’t out.
Play it when the AV weekend isn’t out, “kid”
I also said that I don’t play AV anymore due to these issues.

I’m not complaining about losing, I’ve literally stated why the alliance loses.

[Húrricane-ashbringer]

Well they are now and people like you are still talking trash, clogging up forums with the same posts. Alliance do win, you just have to have a back bone and know what to do. And by the sounds of your comments you have neither "/ You don’t play AV because you cant win? sad times bud, maybe you will learn one day got plenty of time with isolation so good luck!

[Bodiesan-earthshaker]

@Bazooqa-golemagg

Horde is STILL denying they’ve got a massive map advantage? I know it’s hard to admit when you’re winning 9 out of 10 games after crying about Alliance premades, but comon, be real here…

I played Horde and alliance on private servers for years. I know for a fact the map is not as a big deal as people claim. I have seen it from both sides on many version with long and instant queue. I have exalted on Both alliance and Horde in Classic.

The unbalance is a direct consequence of player mentality that is the result of long vs short queues and the fact that Horde are generally more pvp focused.

I mean it’s pretty absurd to claim that the map is so unbalanced that one side win 9 out of 10 games because of the map.

With a long queue Horde win if the game doesn’t end fast. Alliance lose if the game doesn’t end fast. It easier to defend than to attack. Horde generally play pvp for fun and honor, alliance generally play AV for pve rep and don’t care as much. There you have you reason. Alliance can’t win. Not because map balance, but because instant queues turning the collective alliance mind into mush.

The only solution I can see is to allowed premades in AV for both factions. Then both Horde and Alliance can play with motivated people and not just Hord.

[Ablev-argent-dawn]

Funny how in Vanilla, before the Horde spawn point was moved, it was a fairly even BG, although server specific of course.

But classic came along with its modification, and whining horde complained they could only win 45% against allied pre-mades which wasn’t fair, so it was disallowed.

45% win rate wasn’t fair, but 95% is fair as long as its the horde on the winning side?

Talentless, low skilled, hypocrites are the only words that come to mind.

So next changes - Horde get a 2-0 start in WSG? Perhaps Alliance gates can only open once horde have capped all nodes in AB?

Horde would probably still whine

[Zmugzmug-gandling]

@Ironhope-ashbringer

Allow 40 man premades =
no more bot problems
no more mass afker problems
no more alliance loses 90% of games problems
no more ‘‘omg I have 5 lvl 52’s in my team’’ problems
no more super long ques for horde problems (yes, more alliance will start aving if alliance didn’t lose 90% of games because of bots and mass intentional afkers)

We already divered from classic, at least make the changes be for a better lifestyle for players. Instead, the changes so far made the life of players worse.

Countless allies simply stoped av-ing since premades were stopped.

Excuse me for laughing, but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no more one-way 40 man premades for you HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you were fools to expect that to last forever and you laughed at us when we were like “hey blizzard its a bit unfair that only one faction is able to premade” so i shall return the favor in kind, so HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
HA
HA
HARH!

[Zmugzmug-gandling]

I don’t blame horde. They are just doing their job. I want a free bots afks and fishers av, even if the map is still horde favor. You cant deny that.

Hmmm allow me to try to do just that:

1. Bunkers > Towers - no debate, alliance can literally skip archers and go straight for the flag tag AND hit the archers through the tower wall with no retaliation, while horde has to kill basically all archers in the bunkers before they can safely tag the flag and have no way to cheese kill said archers.

2. Balinda > Galvangar - in terms of annoying abilities, namely sheep, arcane explosion and mass slow whereas Galv has cleave (capped at 3 targets), whirlwind, mortal strike and aoe fear. Galv can be completely shut down with a simple disarm, and his fear only lasts 6 seconds… oh and you can kite him endlessly because he has no ranged abilities LUL.

3. Alterac Ram > Frostwolf - Ram has Charge (which stuns) and Wolf has a mere Rend. pray who do you think gets more easily dazed off their mounts?

4. Icewing choke is easier to attack and hold for horde compared to Iceblood choke for alliance. but both are attackable and defensible nonetheless, it depends on your ability to hold the graveyard at the choke, for both sides.

5. Alliance base layout > Horde base layout

Alliance base:

1. Clumped up NPCs
2. A Bridge covered by 2 bunkers firing cancer arrows at whoever tries to cross
3. Trinket recall point right next to aid station flag, makes for easy ninja tag.
4. Horde cannot cheese/skip the marshals for easy Vanndar kill.
5. ONE backdoor that is hard to exploit, a lone alliance ranged class can hold this backdoor 1 vs 10-15 a simple blizzard aoe makes it impossible for any horde to get up.
6. Irondeep mine tucked away behind SP gy aka easily defended.
7. Commanders/Lieutenants clumped up near all the essential base exits for easy regen buff and easy choke defense.
8. The only downside to the alliance base is the fact that entrance to AV is tucked in the back of the base, meaning it takes them 10 seconds longer to get to the mid field when the game starts, this does, however, become an advantage in the late game when alliance should be defending their base (instead of just giving up)

Horde base:

1. NPCs all spread out, easy access to base essentials like Relief Hut.
2. No bridge.
3. Barracks that block west/east towers from firing at incoming alliance.
4. Walls with 3+ sections that can be ‘exploited’ by a simple jump (no wall climb needed, like with that ONE alliance backdoor) - not defendable.
5. Coldtooth mine outside of base, just behind tower point; hard to defend
6. Commanders/Lieutenants separated and alone just like all the other NPC’s, easily killed.
7. Drek’thar easily cheesed for quick kill, making towers even more useless to the horde.
8. Trinket recall point at least 90 yards away from relief hut flag, right in front of Drek’thar’s barracks, good luck getting to the relief hut flag with 30+ allies camping the location.
9. No geographic advantages at FW GY, as opposed to the hill/mountainside next to SP GY.
10. Horde’s only advantage is their cave entrance being next to their frontline which becomes a DISADVANTAGE late game when they need (and want to) defend base.

so as you can see, the map is definitely overall alliance favored, so pack your BS up or present some valid counter arguments to what i have just put forth.

[Serpico-bloodfang]

You’re right but blizzard doesn’t care, they actively want to make classic as bad as it can be, it’s why it has artificial lag that literally only like 4 streamers asked for and no one else, they don’t like to be reminded that people prefer playing a 15 year old game despite all their sabotage and ignoring the community feedback over whatever garbage their team of hack frauds without an understanding of good game design are working on now lmao. Ion is a loser nerd and won’t ever make a good video game, lawyers are genetically incapable of having fun so maybe not a good idea putting such a loser in charge of your game lol

[Kemurai-argent-dawn]

40 man premades are terrible for AV, especially if only one faction could do it… it’ll be stupid.

Allies need to learn to throw games when losing

Stop RPing and pretending the magical power of self belief can help you win. No one benefits from turtling. Feed Horde less honor, make them miss their honor targets. When we’ve lost SH, and we have no one down south to get bonus honor, just let horde win and move aside, you’ll get more honor per hour requeueing and losing at that point. You’d even get more honor by taking a 15 min deserter debuff and requeueing than turtling.

^ This is literally one of the reasons WHY alliance lose.

[Prokroustis-razorgore]

@Ablev-argent-dawn

So next changes - Horde get a 2-0 start in WSG? Perhaps Alliance gates can only open once horde have capped all nodes in AB?

Now imagine that you have only to just “touch” a flag in WSG or capture one node in AB, and you have won. Thats how unfair is to play against a premade in AV. A zerg of epic geared Warriors with 5-7 healers, moving south and smashing without effort noobs and undergeared players.
It doesn’t matter, if the ratio is 50-50 or 100-0. If the one side is able to form premades and the other isn’t, it shouldn’t ever be allowed. Get over it. Ask for changes. Move cave souther for example. Fix backdoor. The prospector pull exploit.
But don’t forget to ask Blizzard to add elites to Horde base. Elites that hit hard, have 20k life, and don’t let healers go out of combat and drink, even if they have disengaged minutes ago.

[Mw-firemaw]

You chose to roll alliance on launch etc etc stuff people say about when horde has a problem with queues

[Crash-razorgore]

Or just activly ban afkers (yes its bannable to afk and not participate in BGs) and botters alike? But its blizz were talking about. If they ban someone, they lose that sweeeet income.

They dont give […] as long as they get money from said players.

[Kemurai-argent-dawn]

Doesn’t even matter about winning for alliance, the majority of them are just doing it for the “Honor per hour”

So they’d rather lose fast than try to win.

[Sille-ashbringer]

Alliance just need to quit and stop pvping. Then maybe blizz will care.

[Aquaman-zandalar-tribe]

It is convenient to forget other aspects, i’ll just name two, but can do more:

1. Horde cave much closer to IB GY than Alliance starting point to SH GY, also Horde can get to the center of the battle much faster.

2. Ground / Air assaults / Special troops, it’s easy to agree that Horde has a massive advantage here

No talking about other Horde advantages like Class advantage in group play or racials.

No talking about the bigger player base that creates conditions to form much more parties of 5-man to join AV. Whoever has the most 5-man parties will have major advantage, so the game is pre determined (premade), that is why the change is so nasty and it shouldn’t be because in Vanilla you could not make 5-man group to join AV.

P.S. - So you did refer Horde base location has a problem to defend your base in late game when you already have the game won?

Nobody can pass the chockepoint in SH GY and there isn’t any other like that in the map that can hurt Horde, IB GY is much easier to get past by Horde.