Nah beat u anywhere. I dont even need to touch u as your friends go afk 
Keep on zugging!
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Wait, Alliance players still queue for AV? Why would you bother? Just look at any map showing both spawn points for Horde and Alliance and youâll know why. Even a 3 year old could figure that one out. The only way to reliably beat such an advantage is with coordination, and the only way to have coordination in AV is with a Premade. You can try to get PuGâs to listen and follow a tactic, but youâll always have a couple lvl 52 ret pallies doing their own thing.
Reversing the spawns would be interesting, but at this point itâs too late. Nobody cares about AV anymore.
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Well, I needed to get to revered to get the quiver because I had killed 200+ elites in Winterspring and couldnât get the sinew to drop. But now that I am revered I will ofc not do it any longer. Itâs stupid and frustrating to deal with the imbalance and players tend to get angry and infight a lot because we all know that whatever strategy we try will end up failing.
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Horde do win 99% of pug games
Horde do planty of strats in AV, including strats that beat the premades
Not in WSG or AB, which should already tell you a great deal.
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There is only one horde strategy in AV, which is the one thatâs almost guaranteed to succeed. This is because the map is imbalanced.
In PUG games itâs even worse because the alliance need absolute teamwork and coordination, whereas the horde can just take what comes to them handed on a golden platter.
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In AV, sure. Do you think that is indicative of a fair and balanced game? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.
Itâs time for Alliance to delete themselves from the game!
How to fix AV? Remove reputation and make each item from the vendor require x amount of AV wins to purchase. That will solve the afk leechers becuase they will now get nothing for being there unless they put in the effort to win games.
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Because the real pvpâers play those BGâs
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Interesting stuff and it might work to explain things if the win rate was 60-40 horde or something like that. A perception has existed since vanilla that Horde is better than Alliance at PvP but that doesnât equate into a 99% WR in all BGs for the Horde. Iâm sure the psychology is a factor in the downward spiral of Alliance AV but letâs not pretend that map imbalance isnât at the heart of it. Hell, Blizzard know/knew that the map was imbalanced because they moved the horde cave back at the start of TBC.
Thatâs just misrepresenting what happened. Before they moved the Horde cave, they had already done these sweeping changes (the last one they did at the same time):
- Introduced resources as a win alternative.
- Shortened the time it takes for a tower/bunker to burn from 5 down to 4 minutes.
- Removed all commanders/lieutenants, except for those two âmid field bossesâ i.e. Balinda and that Horde one.
- Removed all extra warmasters/marshals that spawns when a tower/bunker is burnt down, and linked the aggro of them to Drek/Vanndar so you couldnât pull them separately anymore. Which meant that the warmasters/marshals that were there since the start were the only ones there, no more would spawn and theyâd despawn when their corresponding tower/bunker burnt down.
- Added a stackable aura to each warmaster/marshal and Drek/Vanndar, that increased damage by 25% per stacked aura. Which kinda incentivized going for towers/bunkers before rushing the boss most of the time, since that aura when stacked was pretty crazy.
They also reduced the HP of Vanndar to match Drekâs HP at the time.
This is when they moved the Horde cave. They moved it because the difference in distance had a very different meaning after all of these changes had been made.
The reasons people are whining about now is just made up nonsense.
Oh right, and just to clarify, they had already changed it so you can only be sent to the spirit resser in your factionâs cave when your faction doesnât have ANY OTHER GRAVEYARD LEFT, BEFORE they moved the Horde cave.
So you see, it was for a very different AV that they moved it. And the reasons people whine about now is just them feeding their martyr complex.
Yes. Well said.
They greatly buffed Horde in 1.8. Thatâs the problem. The map is created so that both factions meet up at a the lake.
I mean you can make up any reasons you want to for the TBC changes but if it wasnât such a big deal it would never have been changed.
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It speaks for itself.
It really doesnât. How does distance impact any of those changes? Think. Visualize.
As usual, you donât think things through and just blabber out anything you can find that supports your initial feeling. Itâs called confirmation bias if you didnât know.
Av is made so that both factions meet up at the lake. It is an undisputable fact. Later tweeks fkd that up.
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Yes and 1.12 is a half-way house between the changes you listed and original AV which had Korrak the Bloodrager at SF and legions of NPCs covering every area of the map apart from the field of strife. It was in this original version that the Horde start cave wasnât a factor because the NPCs prevented rush tactics anyway. The amount of NPCs in 1.12 is completely inconsequential and the TBC changes were just finishing them off once and for all.
The other changes you mention changed the meta of AV for sure but not in a way that necessarily favours one faction over the other unless you want to get back into debating tower/bunker design.
And just to address your point at the end, the issue with the cave is not so much the Horde that res there (although that was definitely a problem for holding IB but Horde theoretically have the same problem at SP if it werenât for the fact 90% of the Alliance are afk at that point). The problem is that at the start of the game the horde have reached SF, cleared the field of strife and reached SH garrison by the time Alliance are even past SH.
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Also speaks for itself.
The win rate is, no matter how much you may dislike it, caused by the players themselves.