M+ over 20 = "No Hunters"?

I agree some parts of mythic experiments feels pretty rough in terms of damage taken. But it does for everybody, and hunter is still one of the absolute strongest ranged here. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/33#boss=2693&metric=deaths

Well, one thing hunter does have very much in its favour is that its mobility makes it less costly to move into the melee healing stack than it is for most ranged, which is presumably the reason why it’s typically melee specs that have lower death rates on that fight.

Yep. Also rogues are getting rework and frost mage is getting buffed come next patch.

Much attention, such balance :relaxed:

Edit what I’m saying is, warlocks are very strong this season and the other two pure DPS classes are getting attention, meanwhile hunters are once again left behind for the most part.

Yea man and now they are offering a picnic basket toy to people that watch twitch instead of reworking hunter!

How absolute dare :rage::rage::rage:

Had a look at the other class forums today, and absolutely unsurprisingly almost every class thinks ‘we are getting way less attention than everybody else’ and ‘our class needs a rework!’…and people being upset on forums is not unique to hunter in anyway.

All of these posts from the past week, it’s actually laughable. It’s almost as if people come on battle net forums to complain no matter what.

Warlock post - one week old
Priest post - 10 days old
DK post - 14 days old
Rogue post - 4 weeks old
DH post - 6 weeks old
Druid post - 6 weeks old

Three of the 9 you linked are ‘from the past week’.

You also only need to take a look at the threads to see that many of the titles are misleading. The ‘Feral Rework, When?’ post, for example, isn’t actually asking for a rework. Its asking for changes to feral’s PvP.

Likewise, no-one in this thread is asking for a complete rework to any hunter spec.

It is their thought, and their experience of using their own class.
Who are you to say they’re laughable?
They may also say that your comments on their posts are also laughable,don’t you think?

You are identical to all those people who are toxic in the game and think they are God come down to earth.
And unfortunately you cause toxicity in others.

All 9 are actively being commented on, at the top of their respective forums.


Guess we just rework every spec in the game then, if a couple of people on the forums think it requires it :slight_smile:

Just to remind you:

If I die, it’s probably my fault. If my damage isn’t great, it’s probably my fault.

If you die, the class needs defensive buffs. If you do bad damage, the class needs buffs.

Yet i’m the arrogant one? Wild.

Not complete reworks but changes on what they think should be done.
What you call complaints I call Feedback.
Then we can also argue that some are excessive but to consider every aspect of them as laughable is not correct.

It is not the content of the sentences that represents you.
You could freely disagree with me and there is nothing wrong with that.
But it is the WAY in which you place yourself in front of your interlocutor that is not good.
For this reason, I reiterate, that if you put yourself in a toxic way with others, you arouse toxicity.

It depends.
If I DO NOT die on mechanics but on sustained damage (unlike other classes that hold up better) then I need some changes on defensive cds.
If I do bad dps, of course it means that I’m definitely doing something wrong, but if I played well in a Mythic and I notice that my Dps is definitely lower(not bad) than in the usual classes, then yes, I need a buff to be more competitive .

Small note on survival:
I notice, for example, that after a boss fight, a Shadow Priest is also able to self-heal 5X compared to me.
Don’t you think it might be “reasonable” to give the Hunter (and not only the Hunter but also a Shammy for example) more self-healing?
At the same time, do you think really that our shield recovery time of 2,4 min is not very long?

but…maybe you just didn’t use defensives correctly? Also it’s worth saying that being weak to some forms of damage, ie rot damage, is completely fine when you can see we are very strong at one-shotty type damage. Having strengths and weaknesses is not a bad thing.

Firstly, healing outside of combat is somewhat irrelevant. Secondly, why would we use shaman as another example I have no idea, considering they have offhealing + AG. Rogues have no out of combat self healing (If you count crimson vial, then you can count exhil here too…), DKs dont, mages dont, etc, etc. Just because some specs have something doesn’t mean they all must have it.

This is a weird question. Compared to what? Fort brew is 6 mins or 4 mins for example.

You can’t just look at one individual spell, you have to look at the entire toolkit. Between SoTF every 2.4 mins, we still have exhil, fortitude, and turtle. This is a lot more than what some other specs have. Add the fact we have a fair bit more HP than most other specs, and we end up being in a fairly decent spot defensively, not amazing but not at all bad, and this is exactly what the statistics show.

Same here.

Heavy bursts of damage kill me, period.

Even with both Personnal Defensives up, now that I know excatly what they do and how to use them thanks to this thread, if I’m caught in a burst = splat.

I’m back to moving around at max speed to avoid those blasts, while trying my best to avoid body pulls in nasty places.

And if I can’t move around because of whatever mechanic, I pray that the Healer in the PUGhell will have some spare mana left because I’ll be at 10% health if both of my Defensives are up, or a pancake if said Defensives are on CD.

I had to learn, the hard way, that as a BM hunter (my main character and the one I know most), I’m NOT a Ranged-DPS in the typical sense of the term : I really should try to be as close as possibe as the general combat, to minimize the travel time of my pets in the opening phase, AND relatively close to the Healer (of some specs, not all) to benefit from the passive bursts of healing around them (and with Monks and Shamans, I should stick within 5 yards of them).

If I’m a tiny bit too far to benefit from those passive AoE heals, I become a burden to the team (such as they are …).

Since my own self-healing is rather poor, or not enough against massive bursts, and my own Defensives have hellishly long CDs, the only solution I’ve found is to move out of harm’s way as much as possible, and keeping close to passive healing sources if at all possible (I love Shamie’s Totems and the burst of healing of Holy/Disp Priests).

So, yes indeed, Moblilty is the trick.

Edited because typos

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It happens to everyone to use defensive CDs improperly.
But the difference lies in the frequency of errors that are made when using them.
I don’t think I’m always wrong at all.

In the week of Tyranical, some lethal mechanics are repeated with a very short amount of time from each other and even several times.
I can give you the example of the first or third boss of Neltharus or the last boss of VP or the first of HOI.

I didn’t mean out of combat but during combat.
For “after a boss fight” I was referring to the total cures performed on himself :smiley:
Anyway,a SP is able to passively heal itself even 5X time compared to the Hunter.
This translates into greater survivability and above all a less load for the Healer

I mentioned the shaman because it’s another class that suffers from defensive cds.

DKs can heals itself accumulatin runes

Mage has two ice blocks with self-heal inside and shield every minute.
But perhaps you were referring to out-of-combat healing while I was talking about in-combat healing?

Exhil heals few ,fortitude same.
The damage in the high keys is high and the hunter’s defensive cds are in my opinion inadequate and with a long recovery time.

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Sure, a SP might have more self heal, but as shown in statistics this doesn’t seem to translate to higher survivability. It’s not like all specs with self healing are just stronger than all specs without.

Again - survival hunter in s3/s4 shadowlands was arguably even squishier than current hunter specs and yet was played in all of the highest keys.

I am always of the opinion that until I see the data of the M+, the ones you posted of the Raid are not representative of the efficiency or otherwise of the defensive CD classes.
However, let’s analyze what you continually link to to support your claims :
in the link you posted ( the system tells me I can’t post links), where the percentage of deaths of all classes is analyzed on ALL of the boss, we can find the following:

  • Hunter MM death rate 22.06%
  • Sp dead rate 22.59%
    This shows me that the percentage of deaths of the SP is not very different from that of the hunter because they are very close.
    But the strangest thing is when I compare the percentage of deaths of the Hunter MM and Sv and we can see the following:
  • Hunter MM death rate 22.06%
  • Hunter SV death rate 18.02%
    Now, since both specs, MM and Sv, have the same defensive CDs, how do you explain this high percentage difference?
    This is to say that the links you posted do not provide you with information on the quality and efficiency of defensive cds.
    And now, with a “turnaround”, I am open to everything and I listen.

I think differently.
Self-care over time can mean the difference between life and death.
You also said that 40k more HP of the Hunter can mean the difference between life and death.

Of course not, but it can be very useful in suffering less with damage over time and can relieve the burden on the healer

In season 4 of SL I pushed myself to make several 22+ with the Hunter, yet I didn’t suffer from defensive cds like now.
Could it be that the general damage taken was lower in Sl than in Df M+? (Now I admit to feeling)
If not, could you explain why?


That was because the bombs combined with the special abilities of the Convents were so overpowered it was not even funny.

Quote from a friend, Survival hunter, in Da Other Side M+14 :

“Ooooh I got a red bomb next with all boosts up, I will nuke the pack at the start of the forest part.”

Us : “Oh Gawds please don’t, it’s a Detonating week, you’ll wipe everyone with the DoTs.”

Him : “Naaaah”, proceeds to indeed nuke everything, killing something like 25 trash mobs with 4 GCDs, and getting stacks of almost 1 million damage every second on the whole group.

Us : “Told you so …”.

With the optimal choices of Convent and double Legendaries, the Survival Hunter in S3/S4 Shadowlands did so much damage that if the player was a tiny bit reckless, the aftereffects of nuking 30+ trash mobs in one go would be lethal for the whole group, Hunter included.

But that potential damage, used at the right time, was very sought after.


It was even quoted by Bli² in the patch notes of DF : all damage from all sources in end game content was boosted by 50% (reduced to 25% now), with the Health Points of player characters and healing sources boosted by roughly the same amount.

We do indeed take much more damage in DF than in SL, by design, supposedly to make Healer roles more important, and thus more rewarding to play.

But … almost none of the Self Defensive and Healing abilities were changed to follow that pattern … well, at least not yet, a MMO like WoW will always be a Work In Progress, so I have not lost hope yet.

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Oh,man Thanks for this info :wink:

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Please comfort me : you did see a massive jump in your total health points at the release of DF, even with the same gear, right ?

I personnally went from roughly 200K to more than 350K with my S4 SL gear, just by logging on after patch day.

Oh, and yes, I’d have to spend a couple of hours searching through all the weekly patch notes since the initial release of DF to find the correct “blue post” as well as the various “tuning down” they did afterwards, but the info is out there, now buried under almost a hundred of more recent “blue posts”.